Some balance changes

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

GENERAL

  • Colbertism 1.50f/s to 1.80f/s.

  • Sanctuary laws 0.15 export/experience to 0.25 or buff all res except export/exp.

  • TC’s cost 500w to 600w (revert old buff)

  • Advanced artillery send 1 mortar, cost 200c.

  • Riding School and Fencing School be removed for european civs (except France) and add Liberation March.

Or add a free tech/update or units like 3 royal musks for France. Ex: Fencing school (Germany) add 3 Mountain troopers or Riding school (Portugal) add 2 Mounted infantry

  • Jat Lancer cost -1 pop -5% hp.

  • Move Contract Jat lancers age IV card to age III.

  • All resource gatherers that are considered “military” units (including natives like oldenburg hunters or priests that spawn res in communitary places) are not affected by the military unit rally point.

This is really frustating, especially with the Aztec / Inca priests and sans-culottes .

SPAIN

  • Add economic theory card (revert)

  • Rods become archaic inf, get +1dmg (revert old nerf) or change cost: 65f 35c to 65f 30c or 50f 40c

  • Explorer card age I now also send 3 dogs and up max 5 to 8.

  • Reconquista card move of age II to age I.

With this changes, spanish logistician can be a thing

  • Rework Tercios tactics card, all your pikes transform into rods to all your rods transform into cannoneers. Add a cost or move of age II to age III.

One Tercio it is made up of pikes, rods and arquebuisiers. Canonners can fulfill that historical role perfectly

GERMANY

  • Winged hussars card send 6 to 7.

  • German town send 1 mill, cost 250w.

now is only playable in teams

  • Doppels need a buff or the upgrade cards need to be merged (inf attack + inf hp age II cards). And Steel of Solingen card now not decrease the velocity, add cost 1k food, send 5 doppels, increase the cost of doppels +25%

missing spaces in the deck

BRITISH

  • Add new shipment: send 13 veteran sepoys/gurkhas, cost 250f 250w (age III). Can use 2 times, first send sepoys and later gurkhas.

Or is a card of age II and the shipment could be reused at each age 2 times (sepoys/gurkhas), cost 250f 250w each time and for each age send 10 (age II) / 13 (age III) / 18 (age IV) and they are updated at each age

  • Add a new shipment age IV send 4 mahout lancers + 6 jat lancers, cost 1k food 1k gold.

This covers the historical part of alliances with India, and also it would be a pretty strong shipments that makes the British ff sweeter

FRANCE

  • Add a new shipment age III send 15 upgraded tomahawks, cost 250f 250w

  • Regiment of Richelieu card send 6 hussars and 2 cuirassiers, add upgraded to guard only the units of the shipment, add cost or reduce number of units. 5 hussars and 2 cuirs

historically are infantry but already has a royal musks card…

PORTUGAL

  • House of Braganza team card move to age I.

  • New shipment: new unit montantes (doppels upgraded with dif skin) send 6 montantes cost 250f 250w age II.

  • New shipment: send 14 shotel warriors, cost 250f 250w 250c age II.

  • New shipment: send 8 veteran naginatas or 7 yabusame cost 250f 250w age III. Can take 2 times.

japan alliance histocally cover

DUTCH

  • Counter-cavalry card age IV send 10 halbs + 4 ruyters. Add upgrade to guard only the units of the shipment. Add cost or reduce number of units. 7 halbs and 6 ruyters

  • New shipment age III send 13 line infantry, cost 250f 250w.

INCA

  • Peruvian dogs card send 22 to 28 p.dogs.

  • Balls warriors +5 % hp.

ETHIOPIA

  • New shipment of colonials treasure guardians.

HAUSA

  • New shipment of colonials treasure guardians.

  • Corsair marksman rework to 1 pop, nerf stats/cost.

AZTECS

  • Card age II send 5 jaguars to 7.

  • Team card age II send 3 jaguar to 4.

  • Cards in age II of allies mayans, zapotecs and spanish cost 500c to 450c.

  • Wall of Skulls sends 1 skull knigth for every 3 u habe lost (max 13) to 2 skull knight for every 5 you have lost (max 12)

  • Combat of otomies card age IV also add +2 dmg, otomies now cost +5 wood

  • New shipment age IV card send 3 infinite falconets upgraded or 5 lancers + 3 falconets, cost 1k gold.

Soft solutions for aztecs problems against inf in late game

LAKOTA

  • Hire outlaws and cowboys cost 750c to 550c

  • Hire owlhoots send 10 renegades to 13.

  • New shipment age III send 17 state militia “renegaded”, cost 250f 250w.

Lakota free pop has a nice sinergy with outlaws, need this

  • 5 clubman to 6. yep, 2 mirror cards

  • Tashunke prowler age IV move to age III. Rework if is necessary.

HAUD

  • All supports cards except support oneida cost 1k c to 750w and add a free upgrade for this unit. or rework

  • New shipment team card age III send 3 coureurs de bois + 1 travois, cost 250f 250w.

MEXICO

  • Nerf chinacos -1 dmg or multipliers.

  • New shipment age III send 14 irish brigadiers, cost 500 gold

not has any mercs, and this are historical

CHINA

  • New shipment age II send 8 tatar archers, cost 250f 250w.

Asian civs stay behind in nativs/mercs shipments

JAPAN

  • New shipment age III send 14 cannoneers, cost 1k gold. historical

OTTOMAN

  • Nerf abus - 5% dmg.

*it is to many strong, especially in teams. It also has too many improvement cards *

INDIA

  • Nerf Rajput dps/s.

RUSSIA

  • New shipment age III send 13 northern musketeers, cost 500f.

  • Boyards card age II +10 % hp and dmg revert to 15 % or …12’5 % hp and dmg ? :stuck_out_tongue:

9 Likes
3

One reason I heard a long time ago, from a developer, was that resource drips could make a lot of difference in treaty games, a topic that I didn’t quite understand because in the late game with a large number of villagers with percentage improvements it makes a lot more difference than a trickle of resources, I always thought that sanctuary laws and Colbertism offer very little although a civilization with a good experience curve could get a shipment of 3 villagers + Colbertism at age 1, I could easily get a batch of 10 musketeers on the first try, but I think it would be a good strategy, it would intrigue me, it would be much more rewarding in the long term as the Aztecs, Russians, French and Aztecs do, it may be that those more classic players continue to use 300 wood to make better timing but at the same time not If it goes wrong, it would compensate very badly since it is a wasted shipment just to have better timing in population or construction of a military building

1 Like
4

I’m not at all sure if they would be too powerful in the long run. I would regret it because I prefer to strengthen a faster game…

5

Suggestion:

  • Advanced artillery sends one military wagon
3 Likes
6

Not bad, but prefeer a direct mortar in age III for counter turtle strats. This card is really situational and what you need is response speed.

1 Like
7

Suggestion:
Make this card similar to the Circle Army Card and let it become an infinite shipment after Age 5.

East India Company Auxiliary Forces (1000 wood):
image
Available from Age 3 and sends an Indian relief force to supplement your regular army.

  • First time sends 12 Sepoys
  • Second time sends 10 Gurkhas
  • Third time sends 4 Jat Lancers

This card becomes infinite once the Imperial Age is reached. The units are cycled; Sepoy → Gurkhas → Jat Lancers → repeat. All units are shadow upgraded and are affected by British home city cards (i.e. Advanced Arsenal, all 3 Musketeer upgrade cards for Sepoys, both Ranger cards for Gurkhas and all 3 Hussar cards for Jat Lancers)

2 Likes
8

It would also be nice if the Lakota were able to train a second heavy infantry unit from the [War Hut] in the future. The Lakota is the only civilisation in the game that lacks an infantry unit that fills the role of either a [Musketeer] or a [Halberdier] for them.

Sure they have the [Club Warrior] for countering cavalry through population effective means, but just like how the [Pikeman] and its other counterparts becomes less useful for most civilisations during the later stages of the game the same applies to the [Club Warrior].

Maybe this second heavy infantry for them could have the name [Mauler] and wield this war club shown in the the picture below. It seems that this type of war club, which is sometimes called the “Double Pointed War Club”, was used by the Lakota and other tribes who resided in the Plains according to this website and the weapon was apparently useful for fighting mounted enemies while on foot. But perhaps it would be better if this warrior was of Cheyenne descent since this war club may be more closely associated to them.

The Cheyenne have a history of being allies with the Lakota, so maybe this minor civilisation could be exclusive to the Lakota and be replaced by another minor civilisation, in the case that it would be weird for the Lakota to train Cheyenne warriors at default from their [War Hut] while other civilisations can be allied with the Cheyenne as well.

The [Mauler] could function similar to the [Halberdier] for the Lakota.

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2 Likes
9

Aztecs do not have a problem countering inf. Coyote/Jaguar combo can deal effectively with almost anything. Only weakness of that combo is a big mass of hit and run goon, which would require some slingers in the mix.

But i agree completely with the warrior priest rally point thing. It is really annoying.

3 Likes
10

Mix musketeers and Skirmishers and tell me again. It becomes worse if there is a wall in between.

In fact Skirmishers arent needed, just musketeers plus canons.

The best aztec option in this cases were ERKs but they were nerfed patch after patch

2 Likes
11

@Ekdal1378 I dont play treaty, u think that my changes are enough for aztecs?

12

I agree with the walls, but with the card from age 4 that improve siege attack for jaguars by 50%, they end up breaking walls like butter.

I’ve tested the combo in a lot of different scenarios. It works fine against almost any army composition. It’s even eco wise, because coyote and jaguar cost a lot more food than gold.

ERK was broken, and the nerf was good. Praising a broken unit is pathetic, you should try different build orders with Aztec. ERK nerf along with Jaguar buff should give us a hint.

13

Una reducción de daño a los flecha no ayudaría obviamente. Aumentar el alcance de unos honderos tanto (Creo que actualmente llegan a 18-19) llegaría a ser ridículo históricamente hablando.
Y los envíos de unidades en tratado no suelen funcionar por la demora hasta que llegan, el mejor ejemplo las urumis.

Además, 5 lanceros son fácilmente contrarrestados. Los falconetes podrían funcionar, pero le quitaría parte de la magia a la civ.

Por último, los envíos que cuesten oro no son una buena idea para los aztecas. Su economía depende de los envíos de cajones. Algo parecido les ocurre a los indios con la madera y los cohetes. Un tente en pie mientras cobro, vaya

14

Both coyotes and jaguars are easily countered by musketeers. While if you train AKs (needed to stop canons) you lost number superiority, and they cant kill infantry fast enough.

Did you test it on a treaty context? This is not about supremacy.

People saying that aztecs just spammed ERKs and won hasnt play them. Every aztec player knows that using every unit of the roster is a must. Im waiting for nerfs to caroleans, ashigarus, javelin rider, maigadis and Forest prowler then.

ERKs are RANGED SHOCK INFANTRY, NOT CAVALRY BOTH TAGS ARE DIFFERENT AND HAVE TO BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY, cavalry is not countered by artillery, ERKs are. Cavalry has bonus vs artillery, ERKs havent, Cavalry is faster and have more HP. ERKs are more expensive than musketeers, they have to win in 1:1 battles.

15

the cards that grant guard upgrades should proabbly have a cost ( french and dutch in the list) cause you are providing anywhere from 1200k to like 4k of upgrade res here and also units on top of that.

it will be like the og lakota seven council fires FI all over again

1 Like
16

Aztec
Oto slinger better +damage than + range.
Coyote runner too weak.
I play team game but Aztec is nothing good in battle now, before they still can use ERK but got nerfed too serious much.

2 Likes
17

I mean that it only affects the units of the shipment, and they are improved to add more flavor and viability, not to get the technology for free.

If continuos too strong, can add cost or decrease the number of units.

I like your opinions of balance, more thoughts of the rest of list?

18

No estoy seguro sobre el nerf a AK, pero muchos jugadores pro acaban spameandolos en supremacia.

Los honderos baleares tenian mayor alcance y precisión que los arqueros (aunque estos se remontan a los tiempos de Roma… y logicamente los arcos se fueron mejorando). Prefiero ceñirme en la jugabilidad antes que en el apartado histórico porque si no habría que cambiar tantas cosas… He puesto mas alcance, pero mas daño o un pequeño aumento del multiplicador esta bien.

Tambien creo que los falconets restan originalidad, pero como ya hay envios de rods y lancers renegados, era una opcion anti-inf incluirlos.

Tampoco me desagrada que cambien el costo de los envios de apoyo de edad III oro por comida/madera.

20

Im not sure if can won against mass of musk + skirm + arty + walls.

I have stopped playing Aztecs and Incas because of this…

All are tier S, not surprised.

21

You can try the combination of coyote guerrillas and jaguar warriors against strong musketeers and grenadier or musketeers and artillery. You’d better use the same cost to compare your resource loss

1 Like
23

General

i am vary wary of trickle buffs, and i do think the capitalism buffs has been a bit too much, espeically for musket civs where coin requirements are cheaper

it should be only around 2-2.5 vils max equivalent res so the colbertism change is probably fine

Sanctuary laws is too much for export given that the tea export card only gives 0.35 as it is and the card is pretty good though for different reason

free unraidable xp you also dont really want for something like china given how much people already hate the shipment spam

I say keep the xp and export the same but increase the res stuff so it matchs the 2-2.5 rule some what

say 1f 0.6w 0.6c per second (this is kinda 3 vils but its spread out) would be like the upper limit

the rest of the general stuff ok like the jat lancer change, also they should be age 3 instead of age 4 unit

SPAIN

only got comment on the rods and the House of Trastamara

I stand by the idea that 12 atk is a weird break point for a lot of the heavy hand infantry. I would rather it has a cost decrease so you can spam them more efficiently. it is total 100 res right now it could be 90-95 with its current stats

House of Trastamara - it being age 1 would probably just lead to logistician FF/FI and make spanish ff even faster then it already is due to the fact that it also counts shipment that is received before it in the age that it is sent

so say you go logistician, you can send coin crate in transition so that it arrives in age 2, then send House of Trastamara and then another coin crate. that means you have received 750 coin, 300 food and 200 wood and have decreased the age up cost by 130 food and 110 coin. So you are only 150 coin short of age up which can easily be a couple of treasures or gathering in transition and the food is much easier to gather. All this within 20-30 second of the aging up to age 2 and your age up is also faster, i think by 30% after 3 shipments. So Spanish FF will be lightning fast

German

on doppels I would just remove the speed penalty, change it to a cost increase if need be

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BRITISH
Feels slightly redundant since the sepoys would not be affected by the combat card

as for adding indian units, I think cavs would be more appropriate since it plays well with the british cav combat card and
this card can be age 3 with the jat lancer changes

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and maybe somesort of infnite indian army in age 4 - maybe jat and elephants

I would want the age 4 queen rangers tech in the church to give guard upgrade like it did before so that weird British FI could come back

PORTUGAL
They kinda already have splashy melee infantry due to the pasage to nippon card and that also kinda covers japan.

I would want (and this is probably OP) is that the Passage to Nippon sends consulate Hatamoto samurai

and for an infinite shipment maybe in age 4 - since they shadow tech as consulate units and are still counted as mercenary (so they still get mercenary contractor) it might be a cheesy enough way to play.

as for other stuff I really like the shotel age up that port has got so maybe something more on the shotel side

Hausa
They dont need that they need a way to get the pop count of the marksman to 1

AZTECS

I cant comment much on this but i had a few ideas on reworking the temple support shipments

another longer shot idea is taking what we have learned about attack speed and maybe work the jaguar into a pure DPS 1 rof attacker

2 Likes