Some thoughts regarding the consulate

Okay here is the simple way to solve it:

Point out which of these are fire arrows.


IMG_0265



You said various. So it should be more than one.

If you can’t, don’t let me show the door for you.

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Dont waste your time with schwarzegarde :slight_smile:
At this point i think everyone has an informed opinion about the value of his input

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Except for all the consulate options, that is. Or aren’t those “regular” to you? They’re free to ship an infinite times, just with export instead of wood/gold.

Because of course “the other cultures” just love impractical exotic fancy stuff and can’t help printing them on whatever object they can find! My childhood game says it! It’s how the world runs! My world will be upside down if people from “the other cultures” don’t follow the rules of practice I made for them! How dare they refuse to fit into their well established stereotypes!

Again offtopic strawman. Say the qing dynasty pic from above did feature a cannon. But it looks like a dragon, too. Now what - I’m to blame for this, too? Go ahead and make the “western cannons” card replace fire with ball - you’d still have the exact same issue. Which only goes to show you want to destroy the not broken. Because you hate it. You hate this game. Then why are you even here?

Second from last, the photographs. Both are arrow-type cannons. You’re welcome.

That’s why I always believe the African system is better implemented.
The base African civs don’t really lack any regular option or unit type. They have their own healers, tech buildings, resource trickles, etc… They can produce normal artillery from the palace with one simple tech (and you don’t have to purchase it bundled with several other units which raise the price and cause incontinuous productions). Sure they lack some advanced tech buildings like the arsenal, but not as much as Asians.

While the Asians without the consulate options severely lack a lot of the basics. You even need to switch between options to get a normal functional civ. It’s rather forced.

I’d say its better not hiding so many basic stuff behind consulate options. Make the latter a bonus not the essential.

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More true-er-est words could not exist.


Also I would like to mention these 2 core point in regards to fundamental flaws of Export and its implementation:

The one in the front is a hand cannon.

The one in the back is a big matchlock arquebus.
火縄銃 = arquebus/matchlock

You can load something like a fire arrow into it. You can also load bullets or shells. They are not designed to launch fire arrows. The mechanics is the same as the European ignition system. You can do the same with an European hand cannon if you want.

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This is regarding the Indian Gunpowder weaponery but its almost applicable to all 3 Asian Giants.

It was eventual / localised versions and evolution of the cannons etc, but the modern Cannons systems were inspired or Imported from western powers.

As mentioned in the example in the GREAT video, they used Coins as cannon ball to suit their need and hit multiple targets.

Its just one example of how MIXED the eventaul Diffusion of “MODERN” artillery was, especially to the Asian powers

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From someone who spent hundreds of replies b**ching about one change they made to the game.
I’m happy with most of the changes they’ve made and I hope they do more and better.
While you cannot sleep at night because native people don’t dance around fire anymore, regret you purchased it, claim the changes failed, and hope to return to the 2005 version.

Who hates the game?

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A fire arrow tube ( 火矢筒). That one is just hand-mounted, it isn’t farfetched to assume they could be equally mounted to carts like ingame.

Who hates the game?

You. I’m just playing without updates, and without the og iroquois/sioux. You’re the one offended by dragon art.

火矢 despite literally meaning fire arrow, refers to various gunpowder propelled projectiles.

石火矢 (stone/shell “fire arrow”) is just the regular cannon with round projectiles
焙烙火矢 (tea pot “fire arrow”) is grenade.

Only 棒火矢 is “fire arrow”.

That one can launch fire arrows for sure. It can also launch a shell. It’s because Japanese artillery was not much well developed, they borrowed European firelock systems to launch whatever they had.
So they are practically practical designs. And I actually have the least issues with these being in the game. I have issues with the flamethrower, the fire crow, the flail elephant. All of these were rare and only exist because of exoticism.
All the rest are simply cannons with cannonballs.

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I’m playing WITH all the updates and I’m hoping for more.

Look at the header of this forum: Age of Empires III: DE.
If you don’t even play it what are you doing here?

BTW I’m not offended by the dragon art. I think it is unnecessarily overused.
I won’t get out of my way to complain these if someone jumps in front of me teaching me “the Chinese are like this! It’s accurate!”

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You can play the DE without installing future updates that might rework existing civs. Imagine.

火矢 despite literally meaning fire arrow, refers to various gunpowder propelled projectiles.

This is going nowhere. Obviously fire arrows are ingrained in japanese understanding of artillery, likely because fire arrows predate cannon balls for them. Either way, by no means is this a wc3-tier lich necromancer invention. Which is somehow what you’re trying to defend…

You cannot play DE without the “og iroquous/sioux”. They are in the game at launch, just slightly reworked.
If you hate that so much, I have no idea how you could happily play DE “without them”.

The game is in free trial now. Have a try!

Because you said Asians should not get “normal” artillery while they did a lot in reality?

Wrong. I have no civs in my game that are labelled “iroquous/sioux”. Literally removed. And I’m playing on DE.

If you hate that so much, I have no idea how you could happily play DE “without them”.

I don’t pick them as parts of my game. Same would happen if the chinese would suddenly lose their iconic elements because they’re “toxic stereotypes”, or something.

Because you said Asians should not get “normal” artillery while they did a lot in reality?

They shouldn’t get european arty as constructable arty. Consulate shipments are fine. Playing with quirky asian ones is fine and fun, too. None of those options are fictional. Where’s the necromancer?

Well let’s hope for the best so that in the future you’ll also need to dig off the random button because you cannot play most of civs.

Here it is:

Maybe also Song dynasty flamethrowers (a poor weapon even at its time) in the Qing dynasty?

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I don’t see it, sry. What unit in the entire asian roaster of artillery is pure phantasy and should be replaced by an european model? What’s the necromancer of artillery?

to dig off the random button

I own all dlcs I’m interested to play. And I’m not falling for the " It includes all previous expansions from the original game" meme again. Fool me once…

I think that step zero should be to make consulate units more accessible, like they are for Malta for example. Otherwise why spend so many resources in a mechanic that is barely used. The mechanic should be fixed in the first place.

If we get means to consistently train consulate units (maybe a 50% discount card like we have for technologies with Good Faith Agreements) then it might be worth adding on to that.

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I think there is a word I’ve been using many times:

ONLY

Asians (esp Chinese and Indians. Japanese is ironically better researched) ONLY being able to build gimmicky artillery on their own, and ONLY being able to purchase the most standard form of artillery (they massive used irl) from the Europeans, slowly and in small numbers, bundled with a group of European men that rarely came to actually aid them in battle irl is fantasy.

In fact I never suggested removing them. But of course that mere thought gives you paranoia and you’re welcome.

The thread is not even about that. I even proposed keeping the consulate artillery thing but give them local crew. I prefer it represents the import and adoption of European styled artillery instead of purchasing them with European crew and a bundle of European soldiers.
Maybe also a few more ways to access more “normal” artillery units (and they are not European. Asians have their own innovations on the most standard and practical form of artillery ——tubes firing round shells), besides some fire spitting dragon carts or elephants with chains on their tooth.

Like the British were famous for employing rifle units. Because of legacy game design however they don’t have skirmishers.
I’m not saying they should have age 3 skirmishers by default or totally remove the longbowman. But something like the ranger’s implementation is definitely nice to have.

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The first thing is: if you want to train ONE falconet, (bundled with other units) you’ll need to gather 800 export. And you just get one.

In the meantime other civs have started queueing the first falconet when they have ~300 export equivalent of resources. Then when you get that one falconet, they could have batch trained 2 or 3.

Then you have to wait for another 800 export to start queuing for the second one.

It is very difficult to supplant if you lost one.

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