Then stop spamming the same posts over and over.
5 Likes
- yup, tho I trust it more than a passing insult.
- open any map and itāll usually have a proper name.
the first ānomadā map is named ānomadā and unlike many standard random scripts its children all contain the name ānomadā or have the nomad feet in the picture.
- That is true, and Iāve since edited the original post more so to bring it closer to the speculative side alongside other possible reasons to showcase it as such.
- I think larger sample sizes isnāt something to scoff at, and I searched for more recent votes with similar vote counter to no avail, I even lowered the minimum to 1k to increase the sample size of polls.
- I did not ignore your argument, I attacked it, and yes, I can always do with improvements on my debating skills, of which I have little, but I will always try if I feel itās something worth-while.
- perhaps youāre right, however for the sake of the audience I will broadly focus on all maps containing the standard nomad start vs maps containing the normal standard start regardless of map setting/variability.
that would be if I were spamming the same exact post over and over, which I am not.
Am I being plentiful in how I adjust the argument and present it? sure, but no spam.
the closest to spam Iām getting is replying to fairly similar interactions; at that point it takes a little more creativity to reply with different replies saying the same thing, creativity I mostly lack.
- What is a āproper nameā? Land Madness, Seize The Mountain are arguably just as āimproperā
- āits children all contain the name nomadā, except for Steppe, Afircan Clearing, Mountain Pass, and the real world maps Bohemia and Earth,
and you are yet again ignoring the point:
there is an offical list of game modes in the game. the screenshot i posted above lists them. So:
-do you accept that there is a list of game modes in the game?
-do you accept that āNomadā is not on that list?
-do you accept that therefore āNomadā is not a game mode in aoe2?
I think it is totally fair to limit your selection of elections to those which meet a certain threshold of votes. But since you āsearched for more recent votes [ā¦] to no availā it is dishonest to exclude that information
yes you did. you argued:
elo from X to Y does not transfer 1:1 => X and Y should not be in the same queue
you conclude that therefore X= āstandardā, Y=āNomadā should not be in the same queue
I point out the flaw that this implication is incorrect. ie there is a counter example: X=āArabiaā, Y=āArenaā dont have their elo translate 1:1, but we agree that they should both be in the same queue.
your reply then contains nothing to that argument. it just talks about how there are also elo difference due to practice on different maps. so you ignored the core of the argument
i point out to you that the same is true for Arabia and Arena
1 Like
You never start with a Scout in AoE1 anyway.
Odd that there are two things called game modeā¦
The original AoE1 didnāt call anything āgame modeā: random game and death match were just two separate options on the main menu.
I also have an alpha version of AoE2 that has nomad available as a starting age, back from when it still used the random maps from AoE1 and random map scripts werenāt a thing yet.
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Well wdll would you look at that.
No game mode named nomad in aoe1.
I guess healfortress has even less facts to support his argument.
2 Likes
looks to me like stone age-iron age are normal ages while nomad is something that doesnāt fall into their default settings. it being within the starting age area holds about as much water as nomad being ājust another mapā.
that being said, I appreciate you getting the screen shots for me, the more information the better.
the argument now is morphed into why nomad isnāt called the ānomad ageā
and yes, Iām happy to admit Iām now the one reaching for straws.
Oh look. More moving your goal posts. This is why arguing with you is completely pointless.
2 Likes
not really, I like to see this type of argument to the end, even if I lose in the end, I desire to see its conclusion one way or another to get the full picture. and if I lose, I will admit it.
@TwerDefender dealt a serious blow to my general theory, and I appreciate that, itās the first.
We have reached thr conclusion. Youāve literally had yo move your goal posts numerous times as is. Youāve lost. You fed people how many lies and had them proven wrong?
Game over.
The first? This is why arguing with you ie pointless. Weāve provided you with nothing but facts and you ignore them ot make some bull crap athument that doesnāt counteract our points and act as if youāre right when youāre not.
regardless of the conclusion, I find that statement insulting.
I fed people how many things Iāve thought were true and possibly had them proven wrong? thatās a better statement.
as for if its the first, itās not the first to put in small dents into it and make certain parts slightly unlikely, sure, but itās the first to actually do serious damage that I actually acknowledge and currently donāt have a rebuttal for.
itās not meant as an insult, tho I apologize since it sounds like one.
Key word is THAT YOU ACKNOWLEDGE.
Keep that in mind. We have provided you facts left and right and you ignore them and pretend you counteted arguments that you in tact havenāt.
maybe youāre right, Iād appreciate a full lecture
No thanks. Weāve tried that for weeks. You ignored it. As far as Iām concerned twer iced the cake on your argument
1 Like
he certainly did a good job of it too, even if some arguments against nomad being a separate game mode are flawed, his good info is now enough to where I will have to stand on what I deem as a game mode vs the standard game mode, and while thatās decent enough ground as it is, Iāve possibly lost part of the argument which relied on previous unintended misinformation. and I actually appreciate that because now I can focus on the general facts that remain.
Iām not going to change the argument into āwhy isnāt nomad its own age pre-dark ageā because that wouldnāt make sense. The most I can do is to rely, at least for this part of the argument, on the very large improvements between age 1 nomad and age 2 nomad to showcase why nomad in age 2 is still worthy of different game mode status and very much moreso than age 1ās pre dark age status, and possibly on the very slim chance ānomadā appearing within the age settings without a full ānomad ageā name being a possible pointer that it still is its own game mode in age 1
another possible argument beyond that is if nomad is considered a different age to start from, does that make it a different game mode from the rest of the standard maps that start from the standard dark age?
Iāve edited the main post, let me know if thereās anything that stands out that looks like it may need further editing to keep into account current known factors.
@FurtherLime7936
Nomad: It deserves its own elo, ranked lobby system and or queue. Itās a popular game mode or possibly a separate age before the standard dark age start that happens to be often inside the ranked queues of standard play, yet obviously does not belong there and would do well with its own ranked lobby system like death match. It deserves its own elo and most certainly queue much more than empire wars does.(both deserve separate elo)
Mega Random: a wonderful concept that would be great as a permanent addition to the standard starts queue, except it has too many flaws at the moment: possibility of being nomad, animal scouts and the possibility of starting with double town center/scout/vills/surrounding resources, etc. Itās currently a mess where it could be perfect.
Fortress: a map created for mostly if not only regicide use. When it is not regicide, it needs the castle and the extra vills removed. Or at the very least the extra vills.
Standard start: this is what the ranked standard for random map scripts normal game mode should remain based on and for anything else take it to another queue or ranked lobby system or both.
1 town center, 3 vills+civ bonuses, 1 normal scout/eagle scout, with or without walls or towers(within reason) and the standard low resources you have at the start to use.(not counting surrounding starting resources, those can be as random as maps desire)
The rest of the map may be as random as it wishes, open, closed, hybrid, water, land, I donāt care, it must have the standard start to be considered for the basic ranked standard start random map script queue.
We do not need an entirely separate game mode in the same queue to base our elo on inaccurately.
One who practices standard starts and does not know nomad or even if they only play nomad from time to time, they will 99% of the time lose horribly to someone who actively practices nomad and who actively bans popular maps and stars nomad to increase their odds of winning when they get it to an unfair advantage.
The elo of standard play does not transfer to nomad 1:1 just as it does not transfer to death match or empire wars 1:1, I heavily suggest to separate game modes such as these from eachother. I donāt care how popular they are, they do not belong in the same queue, except perhaps in a secondary queue together as a chaotic, fun, party mode queue with many different game modes such as cba, regicide, nomad, death match, etc on top of ranked lobbies for many different game modes that would appear in the party queue.
Nomad is a game mode/or pre dark age mode that, to exist, possibly needed a random map script to be tailored for its own existence. Unlike death match and regicide it could not be added properly with the push of a button, so it was added via tailored map scripts. In age 1 Nomad was an age before the pre default starting age and may be considered its own standard. And in age 2 it is implemented in a much improved fashion but is no longer its own age or game mode and may have been forced to have maps tailored for it to exist rather than being placed with regicide, death match, etc, to maybe avoid game breaking bugs, like villagers popping into treelines or near wolves.
(Additional possible reason for its map to map basis implementation: it may have also been because a good many maps would simply not make sense with the nomad start.)
The original devs appear to have had a general idea of what nomad was and brought it over into age 2 respectfully from age 1 with many improvements, and I believe it is very much wanting of its own title as a game mode.
Poll area
Somewhere in the middle, comment below.
With the epic nomad tournaments going on, what better time to give nomad its own elo, ranked lobby and/or queue?
See comment #78 for further emphasis.