Here is my new idea, if we were to change anything. I’m not sure what happens to EW or anything like that under this model. Anyway, the ranked queue is now split into 5 minor queues, each with three maps. Players can select to queue for as many of the 5 maps pools as they want. The five queues would be as follows: Open/Aggressive Maps, Closed/Defensive Maps, Hybrid Maps, Water Maps, and Nomad Maps. Not sure where MegaRandom goes, I don’t consider it a nomad map, maybe a pool of it’s own? Each pool then has one map that is always in it, probably, in the order listed above: Arabia, Arena, Four Lakes, Islands, Nomad. The other two maps rotate every week or two based on an in-game vote, from a selection of candidates, or they could just regularly change from a predefined set of maps. Each play then gets one star, and one For me to accept this model however, the Wandering Warriors Cup maps need to be added to the Nomad pool. This way, everyone can play the styles of maps they want to play/feel like they are good on, without having to worry about other maps. Elo can be calculated for individual map pool styles, or for average elo over all the pools. Not sure about TGs.
I actually started writing this 3-4 days ago, and only now bothered finishing it.
Where have you got this idea from? If what you’re claiming was true, the map scripts most likely to be affected would be highly variable ones like Megarandom and Hyperrandom - but those do have nomad starts and don’t suffer from these game breaking bugs. It would be possible to add a nomad start to any map script, it would just require coding into the script. Map scripts may be random, but they give enough control to avoid the problems you’re describing.
I think the real reason nomad isn’t an option for every map is that it doesn’t make sense for a lot of maps. I don’t even know what a nomad start would mean on something like Arena or Fortress.
No its not the same gamemode. On Arabia you dont start with walls and the map is not surrounded with trees. There are elevataions on the map that are a tactical element. That is missing on arena. On Arena totally different strategies are vialable. Castle drop, monk rush, boom into imp and halb siege etc. Things you defnintly cant open with on arabia. Totally different gameplay. so much that my 1400-1500 Elo on open/ hybrid maps only translates to 1200-1300 elo on Arena. One of the main reasons you believe Nomad is a different Gamemode,
Yeah, many… two to be exact. And one of them is the TC that you build immediatly… if that is enough then it makes no sense that you consinder Arena, Arabia, Black forrest and foreest nothing as the same gamemode. Btw you dont start with a scout on forrest nothing.
Edit: ok, i see, you probably mean like the assigned rescoureces and sheep and what not, right?
Mega random, and hyper random, if I’m not mistaken are much newer maps, and regardless they are also specifically designed to contain nomad as well as many other start types, their existence is good; however, they are not the work that would need to be put in to place nomad alongside death match and regicide as modes that can be added to any map with the push of a button. I think it is possible, but it will take allot of trial and error.
I did say if forest nothing started with the standard start, which would include the scout - that being said, without the scout wouldn’t exactly be too far from the standard, particularly on a map with so little scouting needed for much of the game; however, the scout would very much still be appreciated.
(Regarding the lack of home resources on nomad)
That, and including the lack of scout and town center, the lack of home resources on top of having to find them(and the sheep and hunt) without a scout stretches it even further, yes.
But why? I cant comprehend this. Forrest nothing being more Standard than nomad. This absolutly no Sense to me. No sheep, no boar, no gold, no Stone, no nothing, just Wood. No Standard build oders Work, rushing feudal to be the first to sell wood is Key. And you consider this as the Same random Map Mode Like Arabia… Really i cant understand this. Where is the consistensy in this?
The only consistency is what you start with, as well as what your enemy starts with.
I’ve always said the map can be as random as it wills as in terms of surrounding starting resources and things to find or even lack there of. The end result is reactionary actions based on what the map throws at you.
That’s why I would love mega random to be standardized and made a permanent part of the queue, because it evokes the basics and with a consistent standard start it would become the prime example of what maps should be within the standard start; Variable, and consistent for both foes as well as new and challenging.
Build orders are training wheels, and specific maps clinged on to are crutches.
The start and end goal must remain consistent. The contents of that journey to the end however can be as variable as the maps wish to be or are designed to be.
Some things may need to be accounted for or removed/changed within decent balance sense, but all of that generally being the core of the game mode.
Without editing of every single random map script’s code, there is going to be a hard time trying to fit nomad into any(every) map with just the push of a button.
And my source is looking at the difference between age 1 and age 2 as well as it being developed by the same people.
Why was nomad added in via specifically tailored map scripts? And why was it properly labeled as a separate mode in age 1? And why is it still labeled as such in age 2, but without being added to the same menu as regicide and death match and all the others?
Opinion based on observable fact. As well as thinking about why it is the way it is, and how it might be changed back to how it should be with a little elbow grease.
Also, I never stated that the ‘engine’ doesn’t support it, I stated that the maps need to be, currently, tailored specifically to allow nomad. As for adding it with the push of a button, either we need a good amount of just the right code that fits each and every random map script or each map needs to be individually tailored to allow it before adding it to the same menu as regicide and death match as well as any new maps to come and then activating it only if nomad is selected or rather turned on with the code already residing within each and every map within more than likely, somewhat different code per each and every map and the selection in the same menu for regicide and death match for nomad being no more than a light switch. @MatCauthon3
The problem is the start is very different between arabia and nomad. Arena and arabia on the other hand have a similar start that’s consistent between them.
i think you also misunderstand the meaning of the RM elo. it isn’t meant to be an Arabia Elo or an Arena Elo. The very point of it is to be a mixed map Elo (originally even without map bans and favouriting of maps) for standard settings. Nomad fits perfectly well into this: after you’ve built your TC it plays just like any other standard game: you scout for resources, your opponent, go up to feudal, etc.
I dont see any reason to single Nomad out as not belonging into the current RM queue
(ForestNothing being a better fit than Nomad doesnt even deserve a comment)
I find that within the standard ranked random map script queue that map variation is well and beloved, however random start variation is too far gone from the standard that 90-98%+ of random map scripts are based on. Yes, nomad is different, and that game mode has the possibility of many variable map types and those map types may at some point become similar to standard maps in general with the standard start.
I believe that nomad could and should be built on further as it is its own new standard and it deserves better than to be forgotten as if it’s just another map in a pool of 90-98% standard random map scripts.
No its not. I cant Harras your boar vills, i cant feudal Rush you. Its NOT consistent. You have Stone walls. Your Eco is totally Safe until Castle age
Edit: except Tower Rush or playing against cumans.
You might be able to kill enemy boar that lay near the walls, you might be able to secure the outer forward stones or gold or you might take over the relics earlier and secure the forward position if you wish.
They both certainly start with 1 tc, 3 vills, scout etc - I find that wooden walled maps similar to arena are fairly in-between arabia and arena and you may still attack early, now an argument might be made whether or not the stone walls should be down graded to palisades for balance reasons, however I am rather of the opinion that arena is simply an early game mutual beneficial handi cap where both players focus towards the mid-game and the early boom.
