mmm closing out the game is not griefing. The way you’re trying to define what griefing is, is a massive stretch. Is getting ALT+F4’d annoying? A bit. But it takes like 2 minutes to jump into the next game, so you’re kind of making the whole thing sound a lot worse than it is.
Good luck with that, you just banned 80% of the players, have fun getting rekt by the 2k++ pro players on your remaining games.
While I agree with you on one map only players needing to go to the lobby, this is NOT the only use-case of ALT+F4. I also alt+f4 maps that I’m done playing for the day, due to getting it too often and wanting to play the other ones. This is especially true when the 3 voted in maps are Arabia clones. Not that I don’t enjoy playing Arabia. I do. Like 3-4-5 times a day. Not 15.
I recently discussed this problem with my AoE2 homies, and the thing is that the ALT–F4 feature is built-in to pretty much all computers, which means that there is no conceivable way for the devs of a mere videogame like AoE2 to really change that.
…however, what the devs could I think, is make there be a time-delay in shutting down the AoE2: DE app when in the queue and when a map is selected by said queue. Thought I am not a master computer programmer, and am only thinking out loud…
But it most certainly a big issue. Players should not be so scummy as to blow up a Ranked game in the midst of setting-up just because they hate certain maps.
This is a solution that I would fully accept. And make the ELO loss very VERY high.
Like -500 ELO points per ALT+F4 use.
Now the only case where this will be unfair, is if someone’s computer somehow manages to shut down during the match set up (like a power outage, battery discharging to 0%, the game crashes, etc.) But this I think would be a seldom occurrence given that matching making is like only 5% of the total time you will be spending on AoE2, with 90% of the other time of actual playing and another 5% searching for other AoE2 games.
Isn’t it funny how the ranked lobby system is still kicking?
Voobly’s RM ladders are still working and people is still playing and guess what even few folks keep using that system on the HD, such an outdated system never experienced this alt4 issues i wonder why?
Maybe just maybe because the current system was poorly adopted without thinking in the current player base size, skill difference, maps and settings preferences, specially in a 20 years old game that was already split on smaller communities with different tastes.
As result given the low active player base size, the MM forces matches that are not even close on skills or levels, then to make things better if you don’t have a party you will invest all your time playing others maps, so what do you get when playing with players with huge skill differences on maps you don’t want to play? i think you already know the answer, specially if your gaming time is reduced and you handle enough stress in your life to add more awful experiences.
Those who keep dreaming with some sort of punishments need to understand that the devs have to take neutral actions and please as most players as they can with the resources they have in hands, the devs can’t baby sit us forever, they need to give us back the control on what we play and what we enjoy and no the other way around.
So why arent you playing in the lobby, where you can pick whatever map you like? Instead you choice to annoy other players. You can easily move to the lobby and stop annoying other players.
You can change the 2 minutes to 30 minutes. That will make it sound a lot worse.
The average waiting time for team games seems like to be around 6-7 minutes. Alt+F4 happens really frequently, so having it 4-5 times before you get a game started, itsnt that uncommon. Sometimes it looks like the queueing time is more the playing time. Doesnt sound that really bad?
Banned from ranked, let them go to the lobby. Based on everything they said, they seem to fit perfectly in to lobby, but they are annoying people in ranked. I also dont think 80% of the players will be banned. I just hope that many who dont like the system just move to the lobby by itself.
If you just use your bans and mark a different type of map as favorite, your issue should be fixed for the most part. And if you still get a map too much, then you can always host your own games in the lobby and pick whatever map you want. You can even have a custom map pool, if you still want to have a random factor in which map to play. So i dont really see the problem by playing some games in the lobby if you dont have fun anymore in the outcomes of the ranked map pool.
Not sure if this is easily done. Seems like killing a program from the task manager will always be a workaround of the time-delay in shutting down the game. But i am also not a programmer.
I dont also really dont know why slowing down the shutting down is a solution ffor this issue? It might take the player to re launch the game a bit slower, but what would change otherwise? Can you tell me why this is a good solution to the issue? I dont understand it.
This is pretty much a terrible idea. Elo is meant to give balance games. A system that will result in elo penalties as result of quitting will mess with that balance. And if this loss is very, very high, then it will be even more terrible. For that reason Elo loss should not be the solution. It wont solve the issue and would even result in even more unbalanced games.
Voobly ladders were terrible. I am glad i moved to DE. The lobby was so outdated, it really needed an upgrade. Ranked it much better then these voobly ladders, but still not perfect.
HD is full of noobs, who dont really dont know how to play this game. I feel like Alt F4 is mainly a higher rated players issue. Also HD is full of crashes. Not really sure which have an higher frequency: HD games that arent finished because of crashes or Alt+F4s on DE. I havent the stats for both, but i think it isnt really a onesided balance. Both numbers are pretty equal (as % of all the games).
Lets change the subject from just yammer about the current setup to the question: How do we improve the current system? It is always easy to just complain about something, but it is much more difficult to come up with a good solution. I havent really seen a good solution to improve the current MM system. Do you have ideas on how to improve the system? Improving the system is in the end the best solution for the Alt F4 issue. You speak about neutral actions. Improving the system seem like fitting that description. So what would you suggest?
it is still considered griefing because you should also think about the people besides yourself that you hurt with it and/or put in an disadvantice because neither you or other want their game expierence ruined
i just wanna mention in behalf of @SouMexican post (that im to lazy to quote)
an neutral approach seems reasonable what doesnt seem reasonable is that as you think we are the insane people that try to prevent stuff rather then help it in a neutral way and you know why
“because Alt f4 is not an neutral way of dealing with it”
maybe try to think of consequences that are just in a unfair system but not only for you but for us aswell as we basicly just trying to fix it
Unlike a lot of people here I understand both sides of the story and accept that poeple just have different ways of enjoying the game. Your suggestion however to go to the lobby if you don’t like the way maps are being chosen in ranked is not the way to go.
I am an alt F4 player myself if I just don’t want to play a map (again). So i went to the lobbies but that is just terrible. Half of the time you get paired with a lower than low elo legend and in some instances you play against smurfs which is also no fun. The ranked matchmaking system gives me somewhat similar team mates and/or opponents which makes the game more fun to play.
What I do not like is the map selection system. Just give me more bans so I can play the map(s) I like. I am just as much entitled to have fun than players who don’t care about the map. My time is valueable to me and I do not want to waste it playing silly maps that are being forced upon me. I would much rather wait for 20 minutes in queue to play a map I do not dislike.
So my conclusion is to give unlimited bans, and yes, I understand that requires some serious development but at least everyone can play what he likes.
you missed the quote that ranked enviroment is a certain set of rules that should be followed tho
ok this is honestly the worst thing i heard since you rather complain about your teammates then just play because no one can be as good as you all the time no matter the corcumstance. and you alt f4ing is still griefing so in your selfish behaviour you ruin the expierence for everyone else
i also wanna mention yes smurfs are the problem but only because elo inflation or degration happens so people abuse it
also i dont think unlimited bans help since it doesnt show the health of every map that should be played otherwise the whole aoe2 de map could consist out of 4 maps only for you entilted people that premise the game in a wrong subject of its actual usefullness
and like i said before and i repest myself over and over again if we fix the elo inflation and people abusing smurf we would have less problems could play all maps we want
and if you wanna play arabia only in lobby set an elo limit in the title maybe that helps instead of trying to flip the whole ranked enviroment that Delusional people think are the maps and the people and rather focus on how we can make it so everyone enjoy it
Your post is exactly what is wrong with this forum. Why do you think you get to decide how ranked games should be played? It is not for you nor for me but everyone can decide for himself.
I dont want to play one map only but like people before me said is sometimes you get tired of a map and dont want to play it anymore.
And yes, the lobby system sucks because sometimes you get paired with opponents that have no clue how to play and this also ruins the game, just as much as smurfs that are way better than me (and there is a lot of ppl better than me, no worries).
They’d have to actually improve the lobby to be up to at least as good as voobly, if you want more competitive higher elo players to actually use it. Currently the only case in which I agree that players should (and could) go to the lobby are players who literally play only one map. But there are players who play all maps, but just don’t want to play the same map on repeat all day. For those players, going to the lobby does not currently work.
Same as above, the lobby doesn’t work beyond a certain elo, because there just aren’t really any players around. I don’t really want to spend my time stomping players who are clearly hundreds and hundreds of 1v1 elo below myself. The quick fix would be better map management from devs, not allowing 4-5 clones of the same map. Long term fixes would be better custom lobby, basically, they just need to copy what voobly has done.
I don’t think not playing a game can be considered griefing. This is more akin to joining a lobby, reading the description, and then deciding ‘nope’, and bailing out of it.
Then you could consider joining a lobby, not liking it, and leaving as griefing too, which it obviously isn’t, so this whole griefing argument just needs to be dropped, because it doesn’t make any sense, and isn’t applicable to this whole topic altogether.
in general sense yes i could join a lobby, and so could you instead of disturbing the balance of ranked because you dont like a map or teammates as they just want to play as you want to
nobody Can force you but you shouldt force others your bidding is to agree to the terms of rankeds or not but if you instead griefed them then your unhealthy for the ranked enviroment and a punishment should be applied
also i think griefing is an excellent term for this as this would describe situations in other games like Leauge of legends aswell as this one right here perfectly
Then you have a very strange perception of what griefing is. My guess is that you haven’t met many actual griefers. When you see a player spell out F U with pallisades instead of playing because they don’t like the map, then sure, we can talk about griefing (this is an example that I’ve actually seen, no I just lol’d and didn’t report the player).
I am more concerned about your desire to apply punishments to a large chunk of the playerbase than whatever arguments you’re bringing up to be fairly honest with you.
ok first of all yes if someone is disruptive with not playing and do things like writing f u with pallisades thats a thing we can both agree on but simply refusing to play is as bad as disrupting the actual game because their is no actual game or an actual game with an disatcantice and tell me how many people do you think wanna get trolled ingame or being in an disatvantice because someone left?
The thing is, that handing out punishments to a large chunk of the playerbase, instead of fixing the root cause can backfire horribly. Not a good gamble to take, neither is it a good way to keep the community going. By your suggestion, people who want to play more than just one map all the time basically have to quit DE and play on voobly, or perhaps just quit playing AoE2 alltogether if they just feel the whole decision to be distasteful enough.
