The Alt+F4 Multiplayer Problem

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1681

The objective of the Match making is to match players around the same level and sharing the same preferences.

*Current MM is not doing any of those 2 basic things, more than 500 points difference is not close to fair or balanced.

*Current MM has a priority for those who have waited longer, if team A has waited for +7 mins the MM will gather a bunch a players several levels below the rank of team A in order to get a game quick enough, despite the other players didn’t even wait more than 2 mins

*Current MM and map ban system allows premades to control the maps by giving 4 bans, while solo players can only ban one map.

*Current MM doesn’t work with democracy, if 7 players from 8 have certain map as preferred it can’t be possible that one simple guy can ban and deny that map for the rest, given that MM pairs people for rank and after that it chooses the map.

*Current map pool is being voted by the same forum users, the sample of the voters doesn’t represent even 3% of the total players meaning whatever result they bring is just empowering a minority and forcing the rest.

*The maps are not random, 6 of them are picked by the devs, they tend to repeat the maps and put always maps with really low pick preferences and not competitive at all, this should be gone forever.

*Current tg ranks means nothing given the big inflation that was caused by the same devs for too much time, even when there are the circumstances to match 2 teams of around lets say 2400 elo, the match is not fair given that btw those players some of them are 1000 elo 1x1 and others are 1700 in 1x1, when facing each other the game ends pretty quickly on that side, making pointless the whole pairing system using the tg ladder.

*The server allocation is not random, it does generates unfair matches by a terrible algorithm design, if you are from north america and play a team on south america it chooses 100% the brazil south server, same happens when playing vs australian players, the difference is INSANE, as those players close to their regional servers have 50 ping, while the other team members have +250 ping, that is unacceptable the difference is day and night and its embarrassing, the server should be picked by pings rather than locations.

*There should be a ban list for players you don’t want to face on ranked games, lets say laggers, known cheaters like ertug or simply you don’t want to face those big traders that have plagued the team games, not having such basic feature is a huge downgrade compared to voobly a 10 ban list should be enough.

Now if you have some basic reading skills, after all these points mentioned you should understand better the alt f4 phenomena, instead of calling those people selfish or self centered, cause in other words if you ignore all of this points you have tunnel vision, things are not fine, not even decent, things are pretty bad, have a nice day.

2 Likes
1682

IMO alt+ F4 should be penalized on ranked.

Ranked should be the reflection of your overall ability and flexibility.

I only favorite water maps on ranked and have been putting up with those maps absent in the map pool the last few week. Mi solution, hosting games on Island until water maps are back at the pool.

If you only want certain maps you should go to Hosting the games you like. But don’t spoil everyone’s experience on ranked due to lack of flexibility…

1 Like
1683

well the problem is that the current system on how they deduct games is unfair in words of soumexican as longer as they wait the elo gap gets bigger but i think yea i think the flexibility of maps got a bit lost since people tend to play mostly 2-3 maps out of 8 i think that are in the rotation and again as soumexican said they might put in some unpopular maps in with low pickrate but thats totally fine because this flexibility again is what makes aoe2 a versitile game

1684

let’s make bet when it will be it fixed.

  • before aoe4
  • after aoe4
  • at aoe4’s release
  • never

0 voters

1685

i honestly like the commitment but i think that just a margine of people actually look in this forum or this topic specific and the number will probably be low nontheless

1686

funny part must be when alt-f4 appear as a huge problem again in aoe4.

3 Likes
1687

another patch, another month with this issue ignored. sigh.

this thread is now over 370 days old

1688

5x someone Alt-F4 in 4v4 matchmaking. 2x nomad, 2x megarandom, 1x four lakes. PLEASE time out these players for 30 minutes in a new patch. It is taking me 45+ minutes to find a match. This has been ruining the game for so long now.

1 Like
1689

Do NOT agree at all. :smiley: :smiley:

PARTIALLY agree. This is NOT possible for Ranked TEAM Games. :smiley: :smiley:

Want to team together? I LOVE WATER MAPS too. :smiley: :smiley:

DISAGREE ENTIRELY!!! I use ALT + F4 when there is a NOOB in Ranked game that has ZERO games PLAYED for 1v1 Ranked games. AND has HUNDREDS opf games PLAYED for TEAM games, WITH most of those PLAYS BEING LOSSES and NOT wins!!! Such a situation is ONLY used by noobs to have allies carry them WHILE THEY DRAG DOWN THE ENTIRE TEAM AND CAUSE THE TEAM TO LOSE!!! :smiley: :smiley:

1690

If it is not possible for team games then TG ranked should be abolished, shouldn’t it?

This reads as if “noobs” should not be allowed to play ranked? Or did you mean to criticize the match-making?

1691

Clearly you need a better interpretation, noobs, pros or whatever are free to play ranked, the system should after some games do no match noobs and higher players in the same game, that has been an issue since day 1, the current MM forces those encounters because of the time preference for the team waiting longer.

Several guys in this topic tend to ignore that, cause they play with their friends(stacking), so they only want to play game after game, despite the bad quality of the games, at this point i am quite sure bad teams are responsible for like 70% of the alt f4 cases, cause even if you can play goldrush, certainly you are not going to play with allies up to 1k points below ur rank, such disparity has increased cause of a reduction of the active playerbase, imagine playing a map you never wanted to with a team with 0 chances to win, that discourages anyone trying to play a team game by their own.

Ranked is meant to find balanced games, if you want to play any map with players of different levels, then lobbies and quickplay is for you, since those are actually the best settings for CASUALS that don’t mind at all for balanced teams and competitive maps, but ranked should always target to find fair settings no matter the waiting time.

2 Likes
1692

I have no clue why you would reduce the argument to such an illogical conclusion. What you stated was the equivalent of getting a “paper cut”, and then declaring that to stop the would, YOU SHOULD JUST NUKE THE WORLD!!! Here is the thing… ““Paper cut DOES NOT EQUAL nuking the world””. :smiley: :smiley:

Technically both. Think about it in terms of MOBA’s. Iam pretty sure there are some MOBA’s that LIMIT the TYPE OF RANKED MATCHES you can JOIN, UNTIL YOU COMPLETE a specific number of “other types” of matches.

For example. WHY should a noob RUIN MY RANKED TEAM GAME??? Just BECAUSE THEY DO NOT feel like training in 1v1 ranked games FIRST??? Should OTHER TEAM MEMBERS HAVE TO SUFFER A LOSS BECAUSE AN ALLY WAS A NOOB THAT NEVER BOTHERED TO PRACTICE 1V1 RANKED GAMES? Which then, subsequently, CAUSED THEM TO NOT IMPROVE WHIL ALSO SIMULTANEOUSLY DRAGGING DOWN THEIR TEAM MATES? In THAT scenari… it is NOT the ALT + F4 player taht is in the wrong… The FAULT is ENTIRELY ON THE NOOB!!! If the NOB did NOT bother to better themself in 1v1 ranked games first, then it is THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT, if an ally decides to NOT play with them!!! :smiley: :smiley:

`
Even MOBA’s have a SIMPLE SOLUTION for this problem. MOBA’s jsut FORCE players to play a SPECIFIC number of 1v1 ranked OR UNranked games BEFORE they can join a TEAM game OR a ranked game. :smiley: :smiley:

1693

[quote=“ChancierPrism63, post:1692, topic:95086”]

Why illogical conclusion. I thought you are saying that it is not possible to make TG Elo reflect the abilities of the player. If that is the case then the TG Elo has no significance. Therefore ranked TG based on TG Elo does not make any sense.
I don’t say this is the case and I don’t think that’s what you want to say. It was just a comment regarding the absoluteness of your initial statement.

But as I see we agree that there is not just black and white.

I agree. But even if everyone plays a certain number of games this does not imply that they automatically reach a certain minimum skill-level. If I take your example. If there is a player with hundreds of TGs. Why should he suddenly become much better when he plays some (additional) 1vs1?

In my opinion the problem is only the match making (and TG Elo).

1694

To whom are you referring too? :smiley: :smiley:

Yes. And I, am FREE to NOT play with noobs, if i so choose. Even in ranked games.

That is what i am referring too. However, their are MORE than jsut the 2 categories to whicvh you refer too. Their are, noobs, beginners, average, intermediate, advanced, professional. This is a loose classification i just made. Basically NOOBS, do NOT know ANYTHING about “counters” OR how to “properly wall”.

Beginners KNOW how the STANDARD UNIT “counters” (NOT including unique units). AND how to wall. They MAY (Though possibly NOT), ALSO, know, HOW TO DO, specific Build Orders. (Build Orders are NOT the same, as KNOWING HOW OR WHEN to TRANSITION to different units).

And it would take quite a while to explain every level. Therefore it shall NOT be done. :smiley: :smiley:

I have played WITH someone who had RANK of 67. NOT 670. BUT 67. As in TWO (2) DIGITS. In a RANKED TEAM GAME before. I was 1,400-1,500 ELO. I forget the exact amount i was at the time. :smiley: :smiley:

I have 30 MORE LOSSES than wins in RANKED team games. And ALL are because i decided to TRY and play with NOOBS.

I ONCE had an ALLY in 2v2 RANKED game. The ally was japanese (i think). I was GOTHS. I SAID BEFORE THE GAME STARTED. I will go FAST CASTLE AND BOOM WITH 3 TOWN CENTRES. I SAID THIS before the game started.

I said that ONE (1) of the ENEMIES was “MAGYAR” (i think), and that THEY would go SCOUT RUSH.

I TOLD THE ALLY to BUILD WALLS IMMEDIATELY, said, i do NOT care if they are STONE walls, PALISADE walls, OR house/Building WALLS. Just MAKE SURE you build walls…

Guess what…

ENEMY comes to my base WITH SCOUTS FIRST!!! I HAVE WALLS… The enemy CFANNOT get throug… So they LEAVE IN THE DIRECTION OF MY ALLY… I told my ALLY the MOMENT THAT I WAS ATTACKED… That the ENEMY HAD SCOUTS… AND to wall…

Guess what???

The ALLY NEVER WALLED!!! Then the ALLY kept ASKING FOR MY HELP!!! Even though i was GOTHS and i ALREADY SAID i was going to BOOm… AND i already said that the enemy WILL socut rush AND i told the ALLY to BUILD WALLS OF ANY KIND AND SUGGESTED ALL THE TYPE WAYS TO MAKE WALLS…

The ALLY NEVER GARRISONS VILALGERS INSIDE TOWN CENTRE AND 30 VILLAGERS DIE TO 5-6 SCOUTS!!! Ally THEN PROCEEDS TO CALL ME A NOOB FOR NOT HELPING OR SENDING UNITS TO HELP!!! Why the hell would i help such a noob who NEVER EVEN LSITENED OR DID ANY OF THE BASIC THINGS???

THEN ALLY proceeds to IMMEDIATELY RESIGN WITHOUT SAYING ANYTHING FURTHER… AFTER CALLING ME A NOOB!!! :smiley: :smiley:

Correct.

Exactly. No one is going to play a 30-60 MINUTE GAME. When they do NOT like the map, either because they just do not like how it plays, or becausde they are NOT good on the specific map, and THEN just as a bonus, THEY ALSO have ONE (1) or MORE noobs on their team that WILL cause them to lose. WHY waste 30-60 MINUTES of your time when you can just ALT + F4?? Especially when you can have a MORE FUN GAME IN THE NEXT GAME… With ALLIES that are possibly, if not probably NOT noobs. :smiley: :smiley:

An UNranked QUICKPLAY, would possibly, be a better PARTIAL solution to the problem. :smiley: :smiley:

Exactly. :smiley: :smiley:

1695

I NEVER stated that it was “not possible”. I only stated, that it has NOT achieved the effect of accurately matching team games via ELO as a way of measuring a players ability. :smiley: :smiley:

There COULD very well, be a PERFECT, OR at least a “workable” solution. For example. The way, in which, ELO distribution WORKED in the PAST, meant that ALL team game ELO’s WERE inflated by 500 ELO. This was fixed. However, it ONLY affects NEW players, though, conceivably, it would also SLOWLY reduce the ELO of the players who continue to play, as their Team game ELO reduces to back to where it should be. :smiley: :smiley:

This, however, ONLY, partially solved, the problem of a SKILL MISmatch. :smiley: :smiley:

Correct. But i did NOT offer a COMPLETE solution. ONLY a starting point. There ARE MANY other things that COULD BE USED IN CONJUNCTION with the minimum number of team games. For example. Making the ART OF WAR SCENARIOS MANDATORY BEFORE BEING ABLE TO PLAY RANKED GAMES.

OR

Perhaps, HAVING/ALLOWING ADDITIONAL in-game SETTINGS, for RANKED games. Whereby, you can CHOOSE, by HOW MUCH, you WANT / WILL ALLOW your rank to differ from soneones else.

Such options do NOT need to be CONFINED to just ELO rank though. It could ALSO be a MINIMUM level for the ART OF WAR SCENARIOS. Such as, bronze, silver, or gold, for ALL scenarios.

OR

Even a a setting, wherey, one does NOT get matched with ANYONE who is OVER/MORE than a specific number of LOSSES in a team game, WHEN compared to their WINS So for example. If a someone had 400 WINS but 601 LOSSES… And SOMEONE was to CHOOSE the option to NOT allow themselves to be matched with someone, who has OVER 200 MORE LOSSES. THEN, they would NEVER be matched with the player that HAS 601 LOSSES.

Howeever, IF another player HAD 400 wins AND 599 LOSSES… They would be matched. This is NOT perfect. However, you can ADD multiple options like this in a DROP DOWN LIST. You can have the options be something like LOSS RESTRICTION NUMBER OPTIONS - 20/40/50/80/100/200/400/500/800/1,000

Something like that. And THEN the player can AT LEAST CHOOSE how many LOSSES they are COMFORTABLE allowing their allies to have. :smiley: :smiley:

The SAME THING could ALSO be enbaled for the NUMBER OF WINS. :smiley: :smiley:

Probalby NOT. However, AT LEAST it is a start. :smiley: :smiley:

1696

This seems to be another problem entirely. They need a hard reset on the team ranked ELO. sitting at 2k and I sometimes feel the irrational need to queue. There are people at 2k who can’t even execute a build order. Certainly carried by the inflation. I only seem to do well when I get my stack together on discord. We look at our replays and try to improve. For the purpose of the thread, I still say don’t altF4 in this situation, but I totally agree with why you do it. The system has a bit more tweaking to go through.

1697

According to the PUP, the queue dodging punishment is just queue delay

1698

So I’ll need to wait even longer to play Arena?

1699

So you Alt+F4 when you don’t like your team mates. That’s a different topic entirely.

You’re not a map dodger, you’re an early quitter.

No way, dude

1700

i think he is someone with zero tolerance who dodge because of the map and or the teammates but yea its elo inflation that makes tgs unplayable and the other thing i dunno dont seem reasonable i dont get it why people still think if elo inflation is fixed people wont still alt f4 and thats why i think there should be a system like in the pup