So you do not read what I just wrote at all, not even the part you’re quoting, otherwise you would not say “I (bold and capitalized) can be unhappy”.
Wonder why there are no constructive discussions?
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I’m tired of saying the same over over again.
Please by all mean continue to elaborate even more just in case I didn’t understand all of your sentence.
Surprise. How many times do you think I kept clarifying “I am not super negative. I am just saying why a lot of people do not become positive, and you cannot automatically fix it just by asking the community to do so”.
The community will, however, automatically turn positive when they really have something constructive to talk about (maybe the 3rd time I said this).
If there is not, you cannot expect that just by fixing the game to an acceptable state (maybe the 4th time I said this). And this is not saying the game is still bad because it was, but why (I believe) the current update is still not going to change the trend (maybe the 4th time I said this).
BTW these are not “all of my sentences”, but one sentence:
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I understood this before and I kept talking about what I consider to be the issue here. Why I didn’t say anything is because I agree with that you just said.
That’s my bad as I should be more clear on that.
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Alright no problem.
Going back to the very original point: in short, I think only the developers and publishers are primarily responsible for bring back positivity. Toxic people harming the game is the result if they failed to do so.
The community could “contribute”, but very minimally, and it does not really solve the problem.
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I agree here as well, they have to give better communication to us on top of that. The communication up until today has been very mediocore to say the least.
I understand when you are still developing the game and not ready to talk about it just yet, but we are 8 months post launch and they are so secretly about everything.
I read the whole thing and you are the one making the most sense. Thank you for basically saying what has been in my mind for a while.
Most games I’ve bought and bother to join forums start out just like AoE IV, with an initial bout of positivism (new car smell effect) followed by toxicity (this isn’t what I wanted) and then go back to normal once features get added and bugs squashed. This forum is a bit unusual in the sense that Relic hasn’t done enough with the game to placate that toxicity (sufficient communication, acknowledging feedback, good roadmaps, etc.). We’ll see if that ever improves, otherwise just like you said, the community is a side-effect of the game’s state.
Some comments above make claims that this toxicity is killing the game while at the same time acknowledging that forum members account for a very small percentage of players, so which one is it? Because the 2 things can’t be true at the same time. Most people go by Steam/gaming site review scores, nobody Googles “is AoE IV a bad game?” and get thrown in here. As a fun experiment, go to a forum for a game you DON’T own and try to make up if it’s good or bad.
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But they do. My entire point is they do. Would you like me to provide evidence that toxicity is something that impacts the game(s) the extent that the developers had to do something about it?
what you refer to as toxicity is human nature. some people are happy with the state of the game and some are not. The toxicity going up shows more are unhappy than happy, as more become happy and less annoyed when playing the game the toxicity goes down.
In the forums when it feels like someone is listening the toxicity goes down. When you are not heard you raise your voice, when that voice is not heard you scream when that scream is not heard you get your homies to scream with you. That’s how the internet works in my opinion.
In this specific case, they ripped of a lot of people with the way they released and supported the game, now those people are shouting in the forums. And that shouting is getting louder as they feel like they are not being heard but instead the opposite, season one shut down no news.
what was expected? flowers and songs?
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Okay let me make it clearer:
Toxicity harms a game. Yes.
Toxicity should be reduced. Yes.
BUT if toxicity, especially toxicity on a forum that 95% of the players would not even bother entering, could do so much harm to the game (to the same extent as poor developer handling) then it’s because the game has some serious problems. Reasons already provided.
And you definitely would not say AOE4 is such a product.
You can replace the game with a person and toxicity to mosquito or common flu or something.
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Funny to see how I predicted what is happening with this game time ago when player numbers were above 100k… A bad game is a bad game period, stop blaming community that paid for your games.
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I also did but nobody listen or beleive me when I try to warm them. At least this forum is more reasonable.
Unfortunately, I’m not surprised about this at all.
People were frustrated when their spent double or threefold money but only received incomplete experience and hopeless upgrade plan.
Worse, many players do feel depressed while they see those DLC which AOE2 and AOE3 had published recently.
And we are really afraid that one day they will say: do you guys not have AOE2?
So what’s your purpose for publishing AOE4, dessert after AOE2?
In any case do not forget we are angry but only for we love this game, Relic.
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Who needs a dlc when the maingame is broken?
They should finish aoe4 and THEN think about dlcs.
Why add more chaos into the mess?
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We need those both, man.
Make up the maingame in time then pulish new DLC after. This is what they should have done in the first year. And for the AOE series, this requirement doesn’t very harsh.
The first year isn’t over yet, so I will keep waiting. But I’m really worried that I won’t see the new DLC until the year after next.
When peoples were conplaining Relic’s work was lacking of communication, their ture meaning was: are you guys really in work now?
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I mean, malaria and influenza are both pretty serious things, so maybe that’s not the comparison you’re looking for.
But yeah, the reason why we disagree is you see the source of toxicity as factually the fault of the game / developers, rather than a matter of opinion.
I always feel the most harmful thing for a game is not the people criticising it, but the people defending it. The people who doggedly defend a game against all criticism drive players away because they give the impression there is no hope of their complaints ever being addressed. And because the people complaining are driven away, the devs end up with a distorted view of the situation and the game never has the issues addressed.
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To me you’re describing the same behaviour. The problematic behaviour isn’t criticising, or defending the game, it’s doing so with a lack of nuance and appreciation for valid points raised. And that’s an Internet problem.
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Let me get this straight. You want nuance and appreciation from posters all over the world, most of whom do not use English as their main language. I think this is more about sensitive people getting offended over spilt milk, get over it and move on. Everyone has the right to complain when the product didn’t deliver as promised. What other measure of displeasure is there? Please explain in your nuanced way of communication that appreciates a valid point. mind you validated by whom though? You? Me? The white knights in here? Or maybe we let people show their displeasure and if the topic is repeated don’t click on it… how about that?
no one knew that was possible?
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I want nuance and appreciation from anyone involved in posting, that’s generally how forums work. Proficiency in English is a whole other thing, but I don’t think you - for example - struggle with it. Not when you use phrases like “white knights” or the like.
It’s funny. Talking about toxicity gets criticised because it’s not enough of a problem to mention, for whatever reason, but then people like yourself come in here and exhibit toxic behaviour by labeling people you don’t agree with. And so someone else responds in kind, and so on, and so on.
There’s plenty of stuff I don’t click on, for the record. But when I feel people are misrepresenting the situation, that’s when I tend to post. Or when modding’s involved, because I’m pretty invested in the Content Editor. Personally. Other people will have different reasons for participating in a thread 
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