The Venetians are a better Civ candidate than I thought!

Salutations folks,

We’ve all fantasized about new civs and how they could be, I did as well but I never had a preference, anything would have been welcome (and it was, I liked Ottomans, Malians, Byzantines and Japanese). Though this changed recently, inspired by the addition of the Ottomans first and the Byzantines later and by the fact that I have a sympathy for underdogs (they often get overlooked). So the Venetians!

After research, I wanted to highlight them as possible good candidates, even though European.

I found there’s already a good topic with the concept of the Civ, for that I’ll leave a link.

I want to focus on what makes the Venetians (or the Republic of Venice) an interesting choice instead.

Byzantine - Ottomans - Venetians Triad
Historically bitter enemies, fought over the same lands and seas. The third and last side of the triangle!

Relations with other Civs or could-be Civs
Also fought with or against (depending on the convenience) France, HRE, Spain, Saracens (Abbasid), Hungary, Papacy and other Italian States. Venice always had a marked talent for diplomacy. Was involved in the Crusades and responsible for the detouring of the 4th one on Constantinople.

Traditionally founded in 697, ended in 1797 (surrendered to Napoleon). That’s a whopping 1100 years!

Different-than-most inclination of the Venetians, a Trade Empire
Instead of expansionism or struggle over land titles, Venice’s guiding star was trade, sea trade especially. That’s how it rose to power and what its politics revolved around for most of its existence. Gathered immense wealth through trade with the East, had early relationships with powers like China and the Mongols and settlements all over the world. It even arranged state-led trade convoys!

Amphibious Nature
Venice was able to establish control over the Eastern Mediterranean through its fleet, protecting its trade, but could also fight more than decently on land, eventually conquering North Eastern Italy and defending against other continental powers. The expansion on land was always controversial in the Republic, though, but the Venetians weren’t a one-trick pony, colonies and outposts couldn’t be defended by fleets alone. This duality could inspire interesting mechanics and makes for a more versatile Civ than it might appear. A strong navy on water and a ductile army supported by flourishing trade on land (so that they’re not helpless on Arabia).

Not a kingdom
Started as an Elective Duchy, became a Commune in the XII century and then an Aristocratic Republic for its last 500 years. Might give a twist to the gameplay somehow, could have a related mechanic that evolves through the Ages.

Religiously Prestigious
In 828, Venetian merchants smuggled the body of St. Mark out of Alexandria of Egypt into Venice. That started the link between the Saint and the city and gave Venice prestige in the eyes of other catholic rulers. The Venetians brought other similar relics back from their wars in the East.

A capital of Art and Culture
Throughout its history Venice was home of artists of many fields including painting, literature, architecture and music. In the XVI century Venice was monumentalized, gaining the some of the appearance it has today. The Venetian architectural style is very distinguishable, so is its fashion.

I’ll link to this other topic which provides a concept for the Venetian TC.


This post does not :

  • Claim the superiority of the Venetians over all other civs (especially historically).
  • Demand a priority introduction.
  • Exclude any other civ.

This post does only claim that the Venetians are as good as many other civs, should be kept into consideration.

P.S. I may add other interesting facts or observations, if I feel like it.


Since venetia is literally built on the water… :thinking::face_with_hand_over_mouth: maybe it could have a mechanic to build something on the water


I’m all in for it! Give us civilization that can build houses on water so no one can raid them xd


Well it wouldn’t be such a crazy idea for the Venetians, but, for the game, it sure is! Or maybe they could build moats, canals or something like that!

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Yes and drunk civilians driving gondola :stuck_out_tongue:


Shooting fireworks and blinding the enemy player watching!


Venetians sea heavy civilization.Their most important achivement is sea trade and diplomacy both unusable in aoe4.

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It’s true that they were “sea heavy” but they were also able to maintain a presence on land, winning battles and sieges against Imperials, French, Spanish, Hungarians, Ottomans and fellow Italians. I observed that they could successfully pass to the counteroffensive after military setbacks on land, so they’re not one sided after all. I referred to this in the “Amphibious Nature” paragraph.

Of course, even though they were “sea heavy” they shouldn’t be OP on water maps.


Agree. Also Genova would be an amazing civ to have in game. Im also thinking about a possible papal state civ :thinking:
I d love to see something from north italy as well, but its too complicated probably… like Milano


I’m not too sure but realistically we won’t get more than one civ out of Italy, there are so many around the world that deserve attention. To my knowledge the strongest candidate would be Venice, the Papal States were surely influential but might be controversial.


Searching I saw that for example the Republic of Florence and the Republic of Sienna lasted for approximately 500-400 years, generalizing from 1100 to 1500, which in my opinion matches the historical period of the game.

Then I understand that they did not have the same greatness as other empires, given that they were only republics, but it must be said, that from what I understand they were not under the empire of the Holy Roman Empire, ‘‘I’m not a historian’’, therefore I think that Italian deserves something, given that architecturally and from the point of view of a special unit, it also had its own characteristics, which would be a shame to forget, given that in my opinion, seeing the uniqueness of aoe4 civilizations, original civilizations could be released with nice gameplay rules.


Surely they have identity and fit the timeframe of the game, but they lack in relevance. It’s hard to justify something like Siena now, instead of Venice, to stay in Italy. Looking at the rest of the world, I could name the Danes, the Scots, the Persians, an Indian civ, the Incas, the Almohavids… Something like Siena, Pisa and I think also Genoa would be hard to compare to those. Milan and Florence could be a tier above but Venice is clearly the best shot. I thought the Venetians could have a real chance, that’s why I started the topic in the first place. Others, not so much, at least not now.


With the papal state it might include something about the towers referring to Bologna
in the Middle Ages it was like this.


Wow thats cool! As italian myself i even didnt know about it