The Republic of Venice: Definitive and Improved Version

I know that I already made a design about the venetians in the forum, but it was an old design and the forum don’t let me change the original post. So I decided to make a new one, since there are a lot of changes.

So here my new design for the Republic of Venice Civilization:

Fighting Citizens
The venetians army is made of fighting citizens supported by mercenaries. Your ranged infantry is recruited from from your population, and is supported by powerful mercenaries and doctors are also able to sabotage enemy units and buildings.

The Most Serene Republic
Your emporiums allows you to trade earlier than others civs, and to gather natural resources nearby, allowing you for a flourish economy right from the beginning.

Sphere of Influence:
Venice is a city full of riches and art, where private citizens economically contribute to public expenses in exchange for prestige for their family.

Bonuses:

Docks have double the HP. Fishing ships bring back gold too (20% of the food).

Enemy units near a dock receives a speed penalty, they become are 15% slower and get double frame delay.

Blacksmith technologies cost 50% less gold.

Trade units move 15% faster.

Emporiums *(2x2) act as an unique gathering point for all resources and market. It can also either:

  • Automatically gather wood in a large area from all trees, with 15% the speed of a villager.
  • Have trees inside its area regenerate wood with a 20% rate. (multiple emporiums cannot stack its effects on the same tree)
    It contains unique upgrades for the emporium and trade units

Archery ranges built near emporiums have a 30% discount on units.

Sphere of Influence:

Patronage of the Arts: each TC have a 3 tile square area radius which gives a 5% discount to buildings (exception for farms, walls and landmarks) placed inside. Each building contribute to increasing the area and by increasing the discount by 2%, up to a maximum of 20%.

NOTE: farms are available only in age 3.

LANDMARKS:

Age 2 Landmarks:

Customhouse Point: Act as an emporium (dogana). The fee to buy/sell resources is decreased by 25% for you, and increased by 25% for you enemy. Anytime any player (including you) use the market to buy/sell resources, you get a 25% extra resources from the total sum of resources exchanged (so what you spend plus what you get) in any resource that you may choose.
It can be built on the shore to allow the training of merchant ships.

Dogal Palace: a building that combine a barrack and an outpost, with the possibility to add emplacements in their respective age, and to train units and research techs 200% faster.
It can be built on shore, and in that case it combines an outpost and a dock can train military ships (and research their techs).

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Age 3 Landmarks

State Mint: makes all villagers drop a 10% surplus of resources in the form of gold. Such gold is deposited inside the landmark and not into your main stockpile. Such deposit of gold generate a trickle of any resource that you choose, which is is 1% of the gold deposited per minute. To increase the mint capacity, you also directly deposit gold, or other resources (exchanged into gold at current market values). You can also directly take the gold inside the landmark if you need, but this will of course diminish the gold trickle.

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University of Padua: an early university that give access to uni techs earlier, with a 40% discount and with a an additional 5% effect on the techs.

Age 4 landmarks:

Fondaco: acts as a trade post, and it enables to trade between itself and your other markets. Trading with this landmark also gives you back an additional 25% of the gold immediately when the merchant interact with it, without needing to wait for the returning trip.
It can be built on the shore similarly to a dock.

Arsenal: A keep that buff the working speed of military buildings and docks near it by 150%. Inside the building you research military technologies of the nearby buildings 200% faster.
It can be built on the shore similarly to a dock.

GIUSEPPE_BERNARDINO_BISON_VIEW_OF_THE_ARSENALE,_VENICE

WONDER:

Unique units:

Age 2:

Marines: an unique spearmen, which have less bonus damage vs cavalry, but with more HP and base damage.
Cost: 50 food and 30 wood 15s
(Replace the pikeman at the barracks and emporiums)
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Stratioti: a fast light cavalry unit with less ranged armor and bonus vs archers, but with a special charge attack. Such charge doesn’t deals extra damage, but give a debuff to all units inside 0.5 tiles. The debuff is a penalty speed of 30% and of 15% attack delay, lasting for a 30 seconds (economic and religious units are unaffected).
Cost: 80 food 30 gold 14s
(Replace the horseman at the stable)
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Doctors: a healer unit that can also sabotage enemy cities with the poison effect:
Poisoned enemy buildings if not left idle (not training nor researching) for a total of 60 seconds, those buildings work 15% slower, vills drop 15% less resources, and the building deals 15% less damage. The effect also affects the resources generated by trade, relics, hunt (Rus), tax (Chinese), salt (Venetians) and so on. Buildings poisoned also can’t heal units inside.
Cost: 300 gold 40s
(Town center, monastery and university)

Age 3

Spingards: small and cheap cannon available in the age 3. It can deals with small groups of units, and can destroy buildings when on large numbers.
Cost: 150 wood and 150 gold 45s
(Siege Workshops)

Water Unique Units:

Thin Galley: A 20% faster galley (6.6 instead of 5.5.) which is also trained 20% faster and takes just 2 pop compared to regular galley, but have just 360 HP. It can get special abilities by giving them individual upgrades:

  • Fire ships: the units gain a short range fire attack, powerful but that also increase the vulnerability to fire damage and gunpowder units.
  • Trebuchet: the unit gain a small frontal treb, with a long range but slow attack.
  • Frontal cannons: the unit gain a spread frontal cannon attack, similar to a ribaldequin.
  • Extra bulk: the unit gain the ability to trade like a merchant ship.
    Cost: 160 wood and 160 gold 32s
    (replace the galley at the dock)

Hulk: the standard unit, but available at the age 2 only throughout infantry. It have a 15% speed penalty until the age 3.
Cost: 300 wood 240 gold 45s
(Infantry)

Galeass: heavy age 3 ship that can attack in every direction. After a tech, it gives a bonus armor to itself all nearby galleys when standing still.
Cost: 360 wood 300 gold 50s
(Dock)
sanlorenzo1-1

Unique Technologies:

Age 2

  • Artisans: increase all activities of the emporium by 15%
    (Emporium)
  • Double broadax (improved): emporiums gather wood 10% faster.
  • Forestry (improved): trees nearby emporiums can exceed their initial wood deposit.
    (Emporium)
  • Warhammers: marines and stradiots can deal a penalty which decrease the armor of a unit with each blow. Every blow remove randomly either 1 melee or range armor until both reach 0. The penalty last up until the unit is out of combat for at least 15 seconds.
    (Blacksmith)
  • Espionage: scouts become invisible when standing still and cannot be detected with units or buildings that are more than 1 tiles away or other scouts.
    (Town center)
  • Munde: merchants and merchants ships get +25%HP each age and can slowly regenerate health when not attacked.
    (Market)
  • Siege Engines (improved) infantry can build transport ships and hulks near the shore

Age 3

  • Corporations: emporiums are able to gather all natural resources at a 10% rate.
    (Emporium)
  • Lumber preservation (improved): emporiums regenerate wood inside trees 20% faster.
    (Emporiums)
  • Targone: gives +2/2 armor of to the marines, making them a heavy unit, and visually giving them a shield.
    (Barrack)
  • Schiavona: gives +2 attack to stradiots and knights after the charge.
    (Stables)
  • Verrettoni: crossbowmen get +2 attack and bonus damage against buildings.
    (Blacksmith)
  • Sea docks: galeasses absorb the damage dealt to nearby ships.
    (Docks)
  • Insurances: traders and merchant ships killed gives back their gold cost, along with the gold that they were carrying.
    (Market)

Age 4

  • Crosscut saw (improved): emporiums gather wood 10% faster
    (Emporium)
  • Condottieri: military units (except siege and ships) cost 5% less gold.
    (University)
  • Bench crossbows: crossbowmen get +2 attack and range.
    (Blacksmith)
  • Dry dock: all ships are built and repaired 15% faster.
    (Dock)
  • Lazzareti: doctors can be garrisoned inside buildings to heal nearby units.
    (Monastery)
  • Double-entry accounting: traders and trade ships immediately gives 10% of the gold when interacting with the trade post of what they would deposit on the returning trip.
    (Market)
  • High calibers: galeasses deals 50% more damage and got +1 range.
    (Dock)
  • Modern fortifications: all outposts are built with “fortified outpost” already researched. Cannon emplacements take are 50% cheaper and take 50% less time to be researched.
    (University, unlocked in the age 3 through the University of Padua landmark)
  • Star fort: stone walls get a 30% armor against gunpowder siege.
    (University, unlocked in the age 3 through the University of Padua landmark)
  • Cavaliers: Cannon emplacements get +1 range. Stone wall towers can get a culverin attack.
    (University, unlocked in the age 3 through the University of Padua landmark)

Discarded Features:

School of Trades: the landmark prototype of the state mint. Makes all villagers generate a small trickle of gold, and doubled the discount on buildings connected by the sphere of influence.

Chamber of salt: a landmark that generates a new resource, salt. Salt is slowly generated with trade units, or by building farms around it, that automatically becomes salines. Villagers can work there and drop salt at the building. Fishing ships dropping food there can too generate salt.
Inside the building, salt can’t be bought, but it can be exchanged for all resources. The price of course it gradually increases, but it also reset with time.

Lazzareto: a monastery that can train doctors at a cheaper price.

Cranequins: also called bench crossbowmen, are stronger xbows, with more HP and more attack and range, but slower.
Cost: 50 wood 50 gold 30 seconds
(Archery range)

Mounted crossbowmen: unique age 3 light cavalry unit trained at the stable with a high gold cost. The unit have 2 attack modes:

  • Mounted: the unit fight on horse with a melee attack, similarly to a light cavalry unit.
  • Dismounted: the unit dismount to fire with the crossbow at range with high ranged armor.
    Cost: 120 food 140 gold 22s
    (Stable)

Schiavoni: a special handcannoner that can fight either on range, with less range and attack but also less frame delay and higher RoF, or it can fight in melee with a big schiavona, and an high melee damage.

NOTES:

I know that I already have posted a design for the venetians here in the forum, but this design is a lot different for the original one, and also better in my opinion. Unfortunately I can’t change the original post of that design, and just post there the new version would confuse newer people to the discussion. If someone wants to flag to and delete the older post in order to avoid confusion, then by all means do it.

The design of the venetians is purposely over-buffed and over-unique. Over-buffed for avoiding introducing a weak new civ and over-unique in order to represent more aspects and features of the venetian culture and history. It’s also full of unique features in order to have the possibility to remove some of them in the case they’ll be too similar to the features of future new civs and balance changes.

All stats, costs and percentages are more precise possible, but overall they serve to explain illustrate the mechanics and bonuses of the civ, and should be by no means considered the the definitive “numbers”. This is all at an hypothetical level, and need of course more theory-crafting and play-testing to reach a definitive version.

More in depth posts will be gradually made about the landmarks, bonuses, units and other things, that will explain how the civ should be played, the historical context behind it, and how I design them.

This design while being defined a step forward, it’s still far from being perfect, so I count on you and your feedback to help me perfect it even more. I’m posting this nonetheless because I believe that I reached a good enough point, and because I want to move on and start working on a fan design of the Eastern Roman Empire , that for a number of reasons will take a lot more time and effort to do, so I couldn’t keep working on Venice behind too. Keep an eye for one about the ERE, something may come soon.

7 Likes

Absolutely 10/10 work there.

I love the addition to pictures! I should do them on mine aswell but since I post my Civ concept on reddit first, and Reddit being a abbomination of a Forum design.
I have to go pictureless. but maybe I should put some extra time polishing them before copy pastaing them over to these forums.

I love this idea of Venice and can see work very well with the AOE4 design.

When it comes to the Salt-idea I was actually thinking of adding a similar feature to the Songhai Civilization of west africa.
As Salt was very important to them, and you would only obtain it through Trade.
Making Salt a extra resource and sort of functioning like how stone functions for mongols.
But without double production, instead able to produce unique units that requires salt to produce. (mostly cavalry units, since they traded salt for horses and had to import horses from europe)

3 Likes

Thank you, it means a lot.

I was thinking of posting this design on reddit too, or maybe at least link it there.

It can work… fell also free to take inspiration from my landmarks, since it’s there just because it was a discarded/backup feature, in case some other have to be removed.

just beware reddit is absolutely retarded when it comes to copy pasting there. You gotta manually format it to a format reddit forums understand. (double space n ■■■■) Or else all your text gets jumbled.

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Mmm then maybe I’ll just post a summary and the link to this discussion.

I also made a topic on reddit about the venetians, there isn’t everything but there is a good summary.

You can go there and give me an up-post to help the post grow and get visibility.

I also intend to start making posts about the history of Venice, explaining the historical bases that inspired the bonuses, landmarks and units. I’ll start as soon as I can.

I’ll also post a new design of the Easter Roman Empire, but since I’m not an expert on byzantine history as much as venetian history (and I’m not an expert on that either) so if someone is, and want to write in private to exchange ideas.

definitely gave it an upvote! Btw how did you attach the picture like that?

I suck at redditing. lel. For the Byzantines I highly recommend this guys thread if you want to get some inspiration:

1 Like

Thanks man.

As for the picture, I onestly don’t know. I don’t know if it’s auto-generated, or if it take it from the link (the picture is the same that I posted here, but I didn’t put in there).

Nice, thanks I’ll check it out.

THIS is exactly why I don’t like reddit! Just unexplainable functions. I for some reason got automatically blocked by aoe4 reddit section or posting for unknown reason. Had one of the mods unblock me. but there were literally no warning to explanation. not even the mod understood why.

1 Like

The mysteries of the internet :sweat_smile:

I onestly don’t know what to tell you… I can only suggest to post your civilization here and then post a summary on reddit with the link for the forum.

I initially thought that, But the way I can make really nice looking threads in this forum. + this being the official forums with far less community engagement compared to reddit.

I sorta have it in my head that I want to post it first out on reddit. get all the feedback, see if there’s things that needs to be changed, before I then “represent” it on to the official AOE4 forums. Which is why I leave a couple of days between posting on reddit until I post it onto AoE4 forums.

1 Like

It’s been a while since I made this design, the latter that I posted didn’t had much success, so I stopped posting for some time… in the meantime I still kept thinking and putting aside any new idea,m and historical content that I got.

This is my third attempt of designing a venetian civilization, for this one I preferred not making a new topic, in order to not spam any idea that I might have about it. Of course I cannot change the original post anymore, but I don’t think that this will be a problem.

This new design is again a big overhaul over the old one, landmarks are in general weaker, but the civ now have a new reward sistem for when they age up.

Emporiums too are a bit better now, and they reflect more the mercantile aspect of the republic, I also added more unique units, but at the price of reducing their flexibility in units available, in general the venetians still rely on ranged units, but have other options too now.

Bonuses:

  • Town centers and docks have double the HP (it does not affect the capital TC).

  • Blacksmith technologies cost 50% less gold.

  • Shore fish generate a 15% of gold when being worked by villagers or fishing boats. Fishing boats can build fish traps to generate infinite food.

  • Get access to an early handcannoneer in castle age (with just 90 HP, and just 25 attack).

  • Emporiums replaced all gathering points for all resources, and it can be used to either directly exchange natural resources, or to invest gold to get back interests.

  • The Republic elect a Noble every time they age up, a special hero unit that have special bonuses.

Sphere of Influence:

Patronage of the Arts: each TC have a 3 tile square area radius which gives a 5% discount to buildings (exception for farms and walls but including landmarks) placed inside. Each building contribute to increasing the area and by increasing the discount by 1%, up to a maximum of 20% (multiple TCs connected doesn’t add +5%, but the second TC add just 1% discount).

Landmarks:

Age 2 Landmarks:

Customhouse Point: act as market and increase the fee for buy/sell resources for enemy by +50%, traders and merchant ships cost -66% wood.
It can train traders or, if buit on a shore, merchant ships.

Dogal Palace: it act as a barrack, or as a dock if buit on shore. All enemy units nearby receive a speed debuff of -40% when passing inside of its large area of effect.

Age 3 Landmarks

State Mint: act as an emporium, it allows to convert the returned gold from forced loans directly into any resource you want with a 1:1 ratio.

University of Padua: an early university that give access to standard university technologies an age earlier with a 15% discount.

Age 4 landmarks:

Fondaco: act as a market. It can train both traders and merchant ships (if built on shore) +400% faster and cost 66% less wood.

Arsenal: A keep that buff the working speed of any military buildings and docks in a large area by +50%.

Nobles:

Each time you hit a new age, you can choose to train one among six nobles from the senate. Nobles discarded after an age up can be chosen on the next age with buffed stats.
Training a noble cost 200/400/600 gold in feudal/castle/imperial age at the landmark choosen for that age. If a noble dies, it can be re-trained by paying 100 gold, but every time it takes +25% training time.
The nobles available are:

  • Merchant - a trader that can either trade like 3/6/9 traders in feudal/castle/imperial age, or that can set up an exchange office.
    An exchange office constantly but slowly exchange 1 resource directly for another.

  • Captain of Fortune - heavy knight that increases the RoF of nearby ranges units, or that can set up a mercenary camp.
    *A mercenary camp can train units from barracks, stable, ranges and siege workshops 10/15/20% faster in feudal/castle/imperial age, but by paying them only in gold. The mercenary camp can train condottieri and elmeti in the age 3 (with adjusted stats and training time).

  • Doctor - an healer that heal faster (+100/200/300% in feudal/castle/imperial) and can sabotage enemy buildings by poisoning them.
    Poisoned buildings work 20% slower, lose 20% of the resources dropped and train units with 20% less HP. The poison effect goes away when the building is quarantined (left idle) for at least 60/90/180 seconds in feudal/castle/imperial age.

  • Architect - a slow moving villager that can either build as fast as 3/6/9 villagers in feudal/castle/imperial age, or that can be garrisoned inside defensive buildings to buff their stats by +25%.
    Garrison and ungarrison and architect takes 15 seconds.

  • Patriarch - a special priest that can bribe enemy buildings to your side, or that can setup a stand to sell indulgences. When you choose this noble relics are revealed on the map.
    The indulges makes vill deposit an extra 10/15/20% gold on buildings nearby.

  • Flagship - huge galeass that can set up a sea harbor. It can also trade acting as a buffed merchant ship.
    The sea harbor temporarily freeze all nearby ships in place, but it increase their armor by +2/3/4 in feudal/castle/imperial and have 20% of the damage received spread among all units affected by the ability, the flagship repair nearby ships like a dock.

A noble is an unique improved version of standard units, for example the architect is a improved villager in all its stats, as much as the captain of fortune is an improved version of a knight, so they have more HP, armor and attack.
Nobles have different abilities, some require to set up a temporary building. In this case, the unit is replaced with a building that have weak HP and armor, but special functions, destroying the building equals to killing the noble.
The base stats and strength of the abilies are at its weakest in the feudal age, and at its strongest in imperial age. Such stats are fixed and don’t change when reaching a new age.

Unique Units:*

Halberdier - Age I
An unique spearmen, which have less bonus damage vs cavalry, but with more HP and base damage. It can hook and slow down enemy units engaged with them.
Cost: 40 food and 35 wood 15s
(Replace the spearman at the barracks)

Stratioti - Age II
A light cavalry unit with more attack and speed than a horseman, but it cost gold and have less bonus damage against archers.
It can trow a javelin when it charge enemy units, this ability nullify the enemy units abilities, like the charge of the knights, the bracing of the spearmen or the ability to shoot backwards for mangudai.
Each unit they kill, it tribute you 1 gold.
(replaces the horseman at the stables)
Cost: 40 food 80 gold 14s

Condottiero - Age IV
Heavy swordman with a fast attack rate and that have 20% of chances of blocking any melee or ranged attack at close (0.5 tiles), it’s trained very fast.
(Replaces the man at arms at the barracks)
Cost: 40 food 80 gold

Elmetto - Age IV
*The venetian heavy cavalry, unlocked directly in the imperial age it’s train very fast and cost less food.
(replaces the knight at the stables)
Cost: 80 food 150 gold

Lean Galley:
A cheaper and faster model of galley but with less HP that can ram enemy ships. It can get a powerful gunpowder attack.
Ram ability: the galley speed up and hit the enemy ships with its ram, dealing extra damage, but also receiving more. After the hit, if the enemy ship survive there is a 25% of chances that the enemy ship is converted to your side.
Cost: 160 wood 160 gold

Heavy Galeass:
An heavy age 3 ship that can attack in every direction.

Emporiums:
act as an unique gathering point for all resources and can research all eco technologies. ###### you can exchange resources using two unique abilities:

  • In the dark age, it can immediately exchange a batch of 150 resources of either food, wood or stone from nearby sources, equally spreaded, into gold at market prices. Market prices are changed accordingly and each emporium have a 90 seconds of cool down to use the ability again.
  • In castle age, you can use the ability “forced loans”: you can globally invest 300 gold (or more) and get it trickled back with a 3% interest for each emporium that you have (with a maximum interest of 25%). Each emporium increase the trickle by 0.3 gold/sec. This action prevents all emporiums to use the ability munde until you have investments in it.

Fish Traps:
It cost 100 wood and periodically generate food that can be harvested by fishing boat, or villagers if they are near the shore.

Unique Technologies:

AGE 1

  • Channels: docks give a bonus speed to nearby ships and land units.

AGE 2

  • Polehammers: halberdiers +2 bonus damage against heavy units.
    (Barracks)
    (Archery Range)
  • Insurances: traders killed immediately gives back its gold cost and any gold that they were transporting.
    (Market)

AGE 3

  • Heavy bolts: +1 attack and +1 range for crossbowmen.
    (Archery Range)
  • Salines: fish traps can be setted to generate gold at a slower rate.
  • Falconet: galleys gain frontal cannons with bonus damage against ships.
    (Dock)
  • Arsenalotti: villagers are affected by blacksmith infantry technologies.
    (Blacksmith)
  • Munde: emporiums heals traders passing nearby.

AGE 4

  • Cernide: hand cannons cost -20% and are trained in -40% of the time.
    (Archery Range)
  • Targone: provides the halberdier with a shield and the ability to absorb 15% damage from nearby allied units.
    (Barracks)
  • Double-book accounting: you immediately receive 50% of the gold generated when your trade units interact with a neutral or ally market or dock.
    (Market)
  • Flanking Pieces: add 2 more cannons to galleys.
    (Dock)
  • High Calibers: galeasses gain +50% attack.
  • Modern fortifications: all outposts are built with “fortified outpost” already researched. Emplacements take 50% less time to be researched.
    (University)
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More in depth explanation about the venetians:

Unique Units:

HALBERDIER: - the venetians often fought with pole weapons, the halberd in particular was a weapon that spread through all north Italy, and the arsenalotti (the militarized workers of the arsenal, that worked directly for the government of Venice) often used such weapon when guarding the government buildings. The in-game unit behave like a spearman, that counter cavalry and brace for impact. It have more base attack and HP, but this is compensated by a lower bonus damage against cavalry, so in the end is a bit better against everything, but a bit worse versus cavalry.

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There were a lot of different polearms, some were more similar to a classic pike or halberd, other instead were more niche weapons, like pole weapons that resemble more a trident than a pike, or like the “roncola”, a weapon derived from agricultural tool, and had the precise use of hooking and unseat horsemen.

I wanted exactly to refer to this weapon when I gave the halberdiers the ability to hook and slow down units, a mechanic similar to the aoe3 “snare”.

The venetians also used a lot polehammers, with again a hook to unseat the horsemen, and the the hammer to break their armor. This is reflected into its unique techs, that makes the halberdier into a powerful anti cav option, since cavalry cannot escape easily, and the unit can fight both heavy knights and man at arms, but that at the price of being less effective against light cavalry and cavalry in general in the early game.

images

Lastly, in the age 4 the halberdier can be equipped with a “targone”, such shield can allow them to absorb the damage from nearby units, being other halberdiers or not. This is again inspired by the aoe3 “papal units”, this might seem to make them too OP and viable as a unit, but consider that it’s to compensate for the lack of any heavy unit until the age 4.

STRADIOT: - probably the most famous mercenary employed by the venetians, the stradiots were ferocious balkan light cavalry, very effective against various opponents.

They were capable of fight both at distance with bows and javelins, and at close with spears and sabers. They were pioneers of the later light cavalry, and they suited for ambushes and faint retreats, as well for frontal chargers and flanking manouvers.

For their flexibility, and their capability of throwing the enemy formations into disarray, they have the ability to trow a javelin at enemy units when they charge and when they retreat.

The javelin doesn’t deals additional damage, but it block for a period of time any “special ability” of the unit hitted, like a knight can’t charge, a spear doesn’t brace, a khan can’t shoot while moving or using its abilities.

The stradiots usually also receives a golden coin for each head they brought back to their commander, so each unit killed by a stradiot, tribute you +1 coin.

In general, the unit give a bit of raiding potential to the venetians in the early game, but more importantly are a generic counter against all units, depriving them of what makes them strong, and for this reason they can be mixed with any other unit. They are worse at countering archers, but on the countrary they can be used against knights with halberdiers, or they can be used combined with heavy cavalry to counter spearmen units.

CONDOTTIERI and ELMETTI: - I have group un those two units since they want to represent the same period of the venetians military history, of when Venice started to conquer lands on the north of the peninsula.

The condottieri wants to represent not just the mercenary that the republic hired, but also the stile of fighting of the period, based using a side sword and a small shield with a dagger.

The condottieri weren’t of course all swordsmen, they fought on horse, with bow, crossbow and early gunpowder weapons, and whatever it was necessary, but I felt like they needed an iconic name, and also a throwback to the aoe2 italians.

Condos are a fast moving infantry with an high attack rate, that instead sacrifice a bit of armor and HP, but since their fighting style is based on their ability with the sword, they have the chance of blocking any attack that comes inside 1 tile, being ranged or melee (with the exception of a cannonball of course…).

They were mercenary, so they were professional soldier that fought for a payment, and for this reason they are trained faster and cost few food, but have an high gold cost, and are unlocked only in the age 4.

Ingame_spanish_rodelero_espadachin_de

The elmeti instead wants to represent the same thing, a powerful northern mercenary heavily armored, that fought on horse instead of foot.

They are identical to a knight, but cost less food and are trained faster, that again at the cost of having them unlocked in the age 4, and having an higher gold cost.

Aoe3_papallancer_ingame.JPG

Both resemble the aoe3 rodlero (and aoe2 condo) and the aoe3 emetto.

RANGED UNITS: - having few units at disposal in the barracks and stable until age 4, the main of the venetian military is made by ranged units, and each of them have unique techs to have them fill an unique role.

The archer have extra ranged armor in order to counter enemy archers, since the venetians lack the horsemen and knight until age 4, but for the rest they are the same unit.

The crossbowman are the main unit for the venetians, they are stronger than the average crossbowmen, they have more range and attack, making them more viable then most ranged unit, suited to kill both heavy and standard units.

The handcannoneer is available in age 3, but has nothing special. The reason for this early age 4 unit are two:

  • historically, the venetians were among the first in europe to use gunpowder weapons, and this is reflected into their galley as well.
  • the venetians lack a strong unit in age 4, that have both attack and durability, and the HC fill such role.

Early HC have less range, attack and a bit less HP than the standard HC, but they still work very well with the venetian crossbowmen, with the former in front tanking the damage, and the latter in back hitting from afar. And if you don’t make use of the early HC, you have a tech in age 4 to make them cheaper and trained faster.

Overall, you have to make use of ranges units, as the halberdier and stradiots are useful, but support unit.

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I prefer for the Condottiero to be a cavalry unit rather than an infantry unit and perhaps, the Elmetto could be removed, and there’s just the Condottiero. I do at least love many of the ideas you’ve provided throughout this topic.

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I had always believed that for Age IV all Italian city states should count in the “Italian City States” civ. However, after seeing the map of the conquests of the kingdom of Venice, you convinced me, if they deserve Civ of their own. I mean, 90% of his kingdom isn’t even in Italy.

The Venetians formed their maritime and commercial empire, which expanded on top of it, taking territory from the Eastern Roman Empire. They look imposing and amazing.

I find many of the ideas nice, I haven’t read enough of it yet to get an idea of ​​the feasibility of some concepts, but I like it.

As for the condottiero, I think it will not be a single unit. The unit itself was a “General”, a general of mercenaries, and although in Aoe2 it was valid that some of these troops were considered a single unit, such as the Kamayuk Inca, or the Slavic Boyar, in Aoe4 they are not considered generals, or units that one would not normally amass. I understand that most likely, it is considered a unique attribute, a unique technology, as they did with the boyars (+20 HP to knights) or Farimbas (Landmark Mali, that is, the general’s headquarters).

Of course, although the leader is the general of the mercenaries, the “mercenaries” themselves were the unique attribute of many Italian cities, including Venice, so it could be their unique unit of infantry… although I don’t know how much mercenaries of the Kingdom of Venice, and the Google translation of mercenary in Italian does not convince me (mercenario, what is the same word for mercenary either in Spanish).

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At first, I thought of calling the noble captain of fortune (see the noble sistem in the description) condottiero, as to represents the leader of a mercenary band.

The reason why I chose to call condottiero an infantry base unit are mainly two:

  • it’s a throwback to aoe2, which in my opinion is important.
  • the term condottiero is quite generic, it doesn’t necessarily mean a big name leading mercenary armies, like Giovanni dalle Bande Nere, but it doesn’t either mean that every soldier was called condottiero. The condottieri were men rich enough to afford a minimum of armor and to sustain themselves, or even others, but not necessarily a horse, so calling a soldier in armor and sword condottiero is accurate enough in my opinion.

The choice for a swordman, is justified by the development of a lot of fencing schools in Italy at that time, and the spread of use of the side sword.

We still a “general-like condottiero” though, and that is the already cited captain of fortune, a heavy knight that can either fight on the front line, or that it can set up a mercenary camp, and have a building that can train units wherever you might need on the map.

The terms elmeto and condottiero can actually overlap.

The elmeto was the head of a “lancia” a military group made up by a heavy knight (the elmeto) and some squires and servants that fought as light/medium cavalry.

The lancia often fought for money, so an elmeto was a condottiero, even if it didn’t lead other men, but a condottiero wasn’t necessarily an elmeto, since it didn’t necessarily fought on horse.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I believe that the devs are going for more of actual established states than broader cultures, like its in aoe2, that’s why I think that the venetians are a good choice.

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Hello. Honestly, it’s an excellent job. I have just become quite educated in a single afternoon reading your article and looking for an explanation of the unique technologies for Venice. Interesting that they invented the concept of quarantine.

1).- UNITS.-

THE STRADIOTTI.- seems to me a very good choice for a single land unit, since they are mostly “Greek” mercenaries, which the Venetians had at their disposal en masse as they had a large part of the Greek coast at their disposal. control. On top of that, the fact that the Stradiotti themselves became a base unit of the permanent army already in the 16th century, denotes that they were fond of them.

ELMETTI.- I only found a short mention in a book about genoece refer to this unit, but they put it as an anecdote. Do you know sources, books or articles that deal more thoroughly with this unit in the Italian wars? Unfortunately, the word is confused with “Helmet” in modern Italian, and the wikipedia article also deals with helmets.

About marine unique units, ufff, there are a lot, I’m surprised they invented so many, good reason why they were a marine power. I think your proposal to replace the bases with several that serve the same purpose is fine: Galera with “Thin Galley”, Hulk/Urca with “Galea bastarda”. Curiously, I don’t know why they put “Old Boat” in the Latinoamerican spanish translation of Hulk or Urca (spaniard Spanish).

GALLEASS.- Curiously, it already exists, as a French naval unique unit. Although in theory, this French galleass is the copy version that the French, Spanish and other Italians kingdoms made of the Venetian Galleass. The French one specifically represents the bastard galea “La Royale”, which, because it has 3 sticks and oars, counts as a galleass.

  • If it is not because you tell me, I did not even know that the Venetians had invented it. I have to suspect that the only reason they are currently a French unique unit, is because they are the only Age 4 European civ with access to the Mediterranean Sea. I assure you that when they take out Spanish (Possibly as “Kingdom of Castile and Aragon”), other Italian kingdoms, the Galeass will become a “common” unit for them.

  • About your version: Considering the Battle of Lepanto, I understand that your version is based on it. The Venetian Galleass was special in that it had “side guns”, they being the inventors of the fact itself. Easy, the Venetian Galleas could replace the Carraca (which would be superfluous, if the venetian galleas do the same). Of course, I think that since the Venetians are the creators, they probably require 1 or 2 unique technologies to improve their unique ship. Your idea of ​​" *Sea docks *" looks interesting, I would suggest that since its “sidearm” is its base attack, consider the fortress of the bow that had swivel guns in 180 degrees, similar to the Swivel gun technology, but with MORE guns and more damage, or a higher rate of fire. The french versión dont use their tower (I suppose because they have longs guns with are more heavy and static).

2).- ABOUT OTHER ITALIAN CIVILIZATIONS
That being the case, I still have doubts about how to include the rest of the Italian city states. For age2 it was easier, because the main differentiating trait was at least 1 unique unit and a Wonder. But in Age4, which shows “Evolution of countries over time”, with Landmarks or some specific attribute (House of Wisdom) to pass age, it is no longer so simple, especially if we consider that some Italian city states could disappear or lose territory overnight, especially when other countries seized entire islands.

For example, there can hardly be Civ Sicily in Aoe4, as the land passed between the Abassid Caliphate, Normans (pre-British), Aragonese and to Spain. The Cordeca island passed through many hands, but the late middle ages were mainly in the hands of Pisa and Genoa, so as part of Genoa it’s fine. And the famous kingdom of Naples in southern Italy, I just found out that it was a colony of the HRE, and then of France, and lastly Spain (The kingdom of Castilla and Aragon).

Considering other civs that were partly under the rule of others, but then regained territory or remained until the late Middle Ages, such as the Chinese (who came out of Mongol rule in the Ming Dynasty), or the Rus (who were largely ####### of the Great Golden Horde) I think it’s okay to consider the Republic of Genoa as a civ for Aoe4, which in the long run, even after being occupied for 100 years by the French and Spanish, eventually became independent for the Renaissance and even caused problems for the kingdom of Felipe II by inventing banks. The Papal States obviously must be a totally separate civ from italians. And the rest of the city states of northern Italy, which formed temporary kingdoms that took cities from each other, the need a separate civ.

Although I once gave a version for the Italian civ in a post about possible new civ to add, reading documentaries about the rest of the Italian kingdoms, and considering the situation of discarded kingdoms (Sicily, Cordeca, Naples) I think it would look good if there are those civs:

  1. Republic of Venice
  2. Papal States
  3. Republic of Genoa
  4. Italian City States (Representing the North-Italy city states, as Florence, Pisa, Milan, Lombards, etc)

I am sorry that some italian civs give up the well-known Genoese archer as unique unit, fufuffufu (crying), however it is for a greater good of historically representation. On top of that, I just found out that the Genoese crossbowmen were not so mercenary, they worked for the government of Genoa and always gave part of their profits to the Republic. So, they were not mercenaries of France, but “allies” of France in the Hundred year wars.

I also found out that the famous Towers of Bologna, were not towers like “outpost”, but rather were “Houses”, pseudo-palaces created by nobles to impose themselves on each other… it could easily be considered a unique building of the Civ cities state Italian: Tower-houses: “They are more expensive (75 wood), they occupy 15 population, but they occupy the same space as a house (2x2), they have the vision of an outpost, high resistance and can shelter units (5), but They don’t shoot arrows.” Ideal for protecting villagers in the early stages of the game without spending as much on extra outpost. Well, I would tell more ideas, but that’s better for a post of my own.

3).- ON THE ITALIAN-VENICE VERSION of the AOE3:DE:
It’s funny, but one of your versions, the one with the generals that included condottieres and architects, would look great for Age3:DE, specially with the “explorer thing”. It’s a shame that the Italian civ already exists to get all city states and even Genova and Venice Republic as the same civ, because they represent Italy of fourth age from the age of the reunification (1861), and to be more incredible, they didn’t choose Rome or Firenze, but Venice as the capital… although curiously it’s also good, because we can see that the Devs are aware of how many beautiful Landmarks are in Venice.

Comparing with Age 3, I noticed a pattern:

  • Tower of London - Age 3 metropolis building - Age 4 English Landmark III
  • Notre Dame - Age 3 Frances metropolis building - Age 4 French wonder
  • Blue Mosque - Age 3 Ottoman metropolis building - Age 4 Ottoman Wonder
  • Saint Basil’s Cathedral - Age 3 Russian metropolis building - Age 4 Rus Wonder
  • St. Mark’s Basilica - age 3 Italian building - Venetian wonder?

If they get Republic of Venice for Age4, they definitely put it as Wonder. Hopefully yes.

4)´ UPDATE: ITALY IN 1559, AFTER THE CATEAU-CAMBRESIS PEACE
After watching several Italian history videos, now I know that after Felipe II and the war between Spain and Italy, only 4 kingdoms remained:

imagen_2022-11-21_233212268

  1. Republic of Venice
  2. Republic of Genoa
  3. Papal States
  4. Grand ##### of Tuscany and ##### of Modena and Reggio (Ex-all Italian city states hehe)

YES!!! Well, now I know how to guide myself for new guides of Italian states. I think I’ll start with my version for the kingdom of Genoa, I already have 5 of the 6 landmarks, hehe.

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Umm I don’t have the source right now, I’ll look it up and I’ll get back to you.

Anyway, the head of the “lancia” (a squad composed of an heavy cavalier and some light horsemen) was called elmeto, elmetto or “capolancia”.

They were often fallen nobles or man at arms that were payed for their military service.

Anyway, I’ll leave you here the link to the explanation of Wikipedia, it’s in Italian, but you can translate it.

The difficult part of them was to design something that actually represents them, to make them unique and balanced.

But with the ranged charge attack that nullify the enemy abilities I think that I achieved a good design, I also think that they should get a small bonus against knights, and additional bonus against royal knights, to represent their success against French cavalry in the Italians wars.

Well, I personally would give the following military units for water to the venetians:

  • Lean galley: a faster and cheaper galley, built in less time but that have less HP. It can ram and board other ships.
  • Hulk: the generic unit
  • Galeass: with unique techs to make it different
  • the Flagship: a special hero unit that have abilities to buff other ships.

Historically speaking, the venetians used both galleys and round ships like the hulk, in a perfect combination, and often ties between them the 2 kind of units, building so almost a castle in the middle of the sea.

What they lack is a warships like the carrack, since being a Mediterranean civilization they relied more on ships with rows, but the Galeass with the correct tech substitute them.

Yes, exactly, the French Galeass represents a specific ship that was acted as a flagship, while the venetians employed them in mass. At Lepanto they brought 6 of them, but actually had another 8 in Istria that they hadn’t had the time to bring up.

There should also be a tech called high calibers, thay increases both range and attack (maybe I forgot to add it). This is because of a time when a venetian Galeass scared off an English ship of the line, that because the Galeass used bigger calibers and had more powerful cannons.

I personally believe that if 1 state should be chosen from the Italy of that period, it should be Venice.

I personally like a more immersive and historically accurate civilization, like what they are doing with the aoe4 until now, than a mishmash of cultures and states.

That being said, it’s not to rule out that some aspects of other Italian city states shouldn’t be included in the game through Venice.

Actually, I took a lot of inspiration from the aoe3 italians civilization, which take a lot from Italian renaissance before the unification.

The architect unit is directly inspired by them, even if here it doesn’t build for free, but just faster.

It might be… or it might be just a coincidence…

Venice was chosen as HC for the reason that it’s on the sea unlike Rome, Florence or Turin, and it was probably more recognizable worldwide than Genoa or Naples, so it’s better marketing.

Of course the fact that the venetians have been the longest indipendent state of the peninsula, and among, if not the most powerful at various points in the history helped too.

Yes of course, the Basilica of Saint Mark is the Wonder in my Design.

Good luck, the French stole you the idea for the pavisiers crossbowmen :joy:

Anyway tag me when you did it, that I’m curious.

A more in-depth analysis of the Nobles System:

So venetian landmarks are in general a bit weaker or more niche than the landmarks of other civilizations, but this is compensated by the nobles.

The Republic of Venice had a particular government system, where it combined aspects of a democracy, monarchy and oligarchy. It was the latter, the nobility of the city, that held all government positions, and served the republic with several positions as magistrates.

These “heroes units” are meant to represent that, and to be a second reward for aging up, and give flexibility to the landmarks.

The nobles have various abilities, some are passive buff of their stats or straight up improvement on the standard units that they resemble, other are instead particular abilities, with that takes time to activate, and that have a limited duration.
Some can even be transformed into buildings, in that case, the noble become a building with low HP, and that take time to change back into a unit, so even a small army can kill the noble by destroying the building (viceversa the unit is harder to kill than a standard unit). The building constructed by the nobles can be changed back to the nobles again.

So the nobles are:

Merchant:

The heart of the venetian republic, the merchant class became quickly very rich, thanks to the lumber and salt trade at first, and thanks to silk and spices more later on.
The merchant is an economic unit, it can act as a trader to generete extra gold, and depending on the age the merchant value as a 3/5/7 merchants, and it have more HP than a standard trader. It can be a powerful unit that allows you to get an economic boost early on, or it can allow you to balance your eco in the late game.

The merchant can also set up an exchange office, where it can directly convert any resource into another, without fee or using the gold, but as a slow trickle.
For example if you have a lot of wood, and you lack stone instead, you can slowly convert the wood into stone thanks to the merchant.

When the merchant set up an exchange office, the unit transform into a building (it takes 15 seconds) but with very low HP, so even just some spears are able to destroy it.

latest

Architect:

This unit is straight up inspired from the aoe3 architect, but here it built faster than a regolar villager while also having more HP, at the price of being a bit slower, so it’s not suited for Trush strategies.
The architect building faster the later in the game is trained, so if you choose him into the age II, you get the equal of a villager building a building 300% faster (so it’s faster than building any building with just 3 vills), in age III the speed becomes 600%, and in age IV it becomes 900% faster.

Another ability of the architect is to improve any building where is garrisoned. Italy during the renaissance was full of fortifications and heavily defended cities, and the Italians becomes experts into such arts that the start fort was also called Italian fort.
An architect can be garrisoned inside any defensive building (TCs, outposts, towers, keeps, landmarks) to increase by +25% all its stats (HP, armor, attack and range) and to slowly automatically repair the building. This thought has a limit, as once the architect has been garrisoned, it cannot be un-garrison before 25 seconds, and the buff takes 5 seconds to be implemented.

Doctor:

The aspect resemble that of a plague doctor, as Venice has been one of the first to efficiently counter the plague, and they invented the concept (and the word) quarantine (from “quarantia”, the days that a ship had to wait to enter in the dock, to be sure that it didn’t bring inside diseases).
So the doctor is a special units, that depending on the age that you train it heals faster. It’s suited for rush strategies, as even if Venice doesn’t have expensive tanky units like an elephants or knight, this unit can still heals really fast your mass of cheap units, when they are idle.

The doctor can also sabotage enemy buildings, now here we are getting a bit on the fantasy side of history, but there is some actual background to it, and it’s a really cool mechanic in my opinion.
Basically, Venice always tried other ways around in war to avoid a direct fight, lie bribing and corrupting officials to settle for an agreement, but sometimes they get even more creative, and there is proof of the venetian high council that it financed a plan to infect and ottoman army with plague, then the plan never carried out (either because the ship with the doctor shipwrecked, or because it wasn’t effective) but still it’s a nice bonus, and tactics like poisoning well was quite common at any time.

Basically the doctor would have a special ability called poison, that allows the doctor to poison an enemy building with the plague. A plagued building still works, but have a 15% penalty on everything, form working 15% slower, to vills dropping down 15% less resources, to inflicting 15% less attack and training units with already a 15% damage of HP.
A poisoned building can be healed only by quarantine it, which means that the building has to stay idle for 60 seconds in total. When a doctor poison a building, a countdown of 60 seconds starts, but every time that building train a unit or research a tech, the countdown is stopped, so to get rid of poison effect, you have to idle the building for a total of 60 seconds, not necessarily continually.

Captain of Fortune:

This noble apper and act similar to a knight, and have overall better HP and attack than a royal knight (but you can have only one of them). The captain is a strong unit of its own, but it also have the effect of buffing the rate of fire of nearby ranged units by +5/10/15%, depending if it’s trained in feudal/castle/imperial age.

The condottiero can set up a mercenary camp, a building that allows the training of any unit, at a faster rate (depending on the age) but with an higher gold cost, which again depends on the age. The mercenary camp can be set up anywhere in the map, and then it can be moved, but it needs 15 seconds to set up and to dismantle it, while also having very low HP.
The mercenary camp is also the only way to get access to the elmeti (knights) and condottieri (man at arms) in the age III instead of age IV.

Patriarch:

Venice is one of the few cities that even nowadays doesn’t have a bishop, but a patriarch, despite not being one of the ancient great cristian cities.
This noble although represents more Venice pragmatism and political powers, in fact it has the ability of converting enemy buildings to your side, by bribing them. Converting a building cost 10 gold each 2 seconds, and the chances of converting a building are higher the closest the building is to your capital TC.

The bishop also have the ability of revealing relics on the map, and depending on which age is chosen, it can reveal from 1 to 3 relics randomly on the map. This is due to represent the venetians hunt for relics to bring inside the city, so to get prestigious and lucrative pilgrimage business (the famous snatch of the body of Saint Mark is an example).

Lastly, the patriarch can set up a stand to sell indulgences, basically this building can generate gold for each villager working nearby, granting you a trickle of gold similar to a relic.

Monk_hero_aoe2DE

Flagship:

The only noble available for water, it’s a powerful galeass with extra HP and attack, and with the ability to trade like a trade ship, with extra 25/50/75% gold generation, depending on the age.

So the flagship is a way to obtain a powerful economic unit and a military unit at the same time, but it also have a special ability called sea harbor.

The sea harbor can be activated in order to freeze in the same place the flagship and all nearby ships (they can still rotate) but it allows the flagship to heal them like a dock, and it greatly increases their armor, with an effect that vary on the age that the nobles is chosen.

So those are the nobles at the disposal of the venetians. As you can see, they gave the civ a lot of flexibility, but at the cost of being more expensive and vulnerable than simply landmarks.

The venetians have two pure economic nobles like the merchant and architect, two nobles more suited to rush and aggression, the captain and the doctor, and two more versitile nobles more suited for both economic and military approaches, the patriarch and the flagship, the latter being also a water unit.

What do you think of each of them, comment on your favorite. This sistem took a lof of time to design, and I’m quite proud of it, despite its still la working in progress.

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Which venetian noble you like the most of the six available to them?

  • Merchant
  • Architect
  • Doctor
  • Captain
  • Patriarch
  • Flagship

0 voters

Add in the comments below why you liked a specific noble, or why you dislike another, and especially what changes would you implement to the individual nobles and the noble sistem.

I’ll do a post dedicated to the venetian landmarks too in a second post.

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