Continuing again the discussions about a balance directed toward more differentiate civs in online games, turks are the next.
Problems of the turks
Turks are a strong imp civ, but often struggle to get there since they lack counter-trash units (pikes and ES), expecially they struggle to cost effective counter archers in the long run, they got manganels for castle age, but they lack onagers, so in the end they have to go for hussars, which yes, they get them FU and with free upgrades, a strong bonus, but not enaugh (they aren’t above average), expecially because when gold runs out, it’s their only trash unit.
And here there is their second weakness, on 1v1, when gold runs out, they don’t have anything that helps them out.
So someone had an idea is to let that the UT sipahi affect their scout line, which would give them about mongols level hussars (but for a price and with the last armor upgrade). However, they wouldn’t be that much better vs archers (turks’ main weakness) since +20HP it’s about 5 more arrows from an arbs, which it’s not a lot (from 24 arrows to 29), an attack bonus vs archers would actually help more (like the persians’ one).
Another idea would be to bost their only other anti archer option, their rams. Now they have Siege Rams (which is good), but with no bonus, a potential bonus would be that of giving them for free the rams upgrade, even just capped ram would be enaugh, not so much for the 300f saved, but for the time saved, you could go directly for SR in early imp and start pumping out SR, hussars with the support of gunpowder.
Another option would be that of removing the gold cost on SR, not the BR or the CR (so no trash rams ins castle age), the gold cost would be removed/substituted only once SR in researced in imp, making them an trash-siege unit for the late game. That would supplement for their lack of trash anf giving them at the same time some anti-archer options.
These, again, are some suggestion in order to see more differentiate civs in online game across all maps.
cavarly option is viable . or just give them eskirmisher
I like the idea of trash rams.
ES would kind of ruin the theme of the civ, but they could improve something else to counter archers.
Sipahi affecting light cav might be even too good on the castle age but on the other hand, mongols get pretty good light cav on castle too so why not. Guess the added power spike at the immediate start of the imperial age, which is turks strong point already, could be too much? Or maybe it’s what they deserve?
To make their siege a little better, Siege Engineers could be a nice option. If someone thinks bombard cannon range would then be op, artillery could add only +1 to bombard cannons (still +2 to galleon and tower). Trash siege rams however are just op. There’s no way around that >:D
I’m still advertising the idea of making their gold last longer by the same amount that they mine it faster with, the rate itself could be lowered from 20% in that case, so for example last longer and gather faster by 15%. (if this was coupled with the added sipahi effect for example, I guess you could treat it somewhat more balanced then since it would also be a nerf to turks in the short run so the added buff from the sipahi wouldn’t be as bad as it would be without this in the short term, however on the long game turks could be more viable than what they are now)
Also making spears and skirms a little cheaper on castle age and even cheaper on imperial age. So the units would still stay very supbar, but could be seen somewhat a sensible option nonetheless at the later ages.
maybe an upgrade ‘‘patriotism’’ which gives +20 or +25 hp or maybe (+3 or +4) attack against archers to their skirmishers i dont know just an idea.i heard it from the forums someone suggested it either.
or sipahi could give +2 or +3 dmg to scout line it would change the tide and keep the theme nice i believe.
I would only allow trash rams if they lackes upgrades (capped or siege)…
Every civ with huge discount in their units usually lacks some upgrades or important techs.
Siege ram without siege engineer is far better than a ram with siege engineer.
My personal approach would be to five extra pierce armor to light cav line, maybe +1 in castle and +1 in imp (if necessary).
or maybe adding anti-trash or anti-archer attack bonus on their hussar will be perfect ! i think its best solution maybe +4 attack or +5 i dont know.i mean most of the units are not used with turks for example
taking champion and last inf. upgrade and even cavalier and heavy camels from Turks.then give turks light cav +5 against archer and sipahi now effect all cav units i bet this will make turks viable . artielly must not cost stone too.this will be historically accurate also as turks were very capable warriors on horseback.
They would be SR without SE and pikes to garrison.
BR and CR aren’t that good for counter archers, their main weakness.
Removing champs=turks have no longer a convenient trash killer, knights and normal camels with just +20 HP would be utter crap (I mean cavalier and heavy camel already give +20 HP on top of better attack)
That’s what Sipahi and free light cav are for already I guess
Turks already have counters to archers, as was proven to you.
most of the players agreed that turks have no efficient archer answer
perfect wooden skirmish and 7 range 40 hp 135gold mangonels are VERY EFFICENT way of countering archers yes yes im on it …
countering arbaletst with using mangonel is not a strategy that you can rely on u are still trolling me …its just rare situation …im not going to delete this game as u didnt prove what i wanted to see. saying that u cant even kill single arbalest with mangonels means its not a way u can counter fu arbalests in pro gaming … yea even siege rams can kill arbalest when things are got in that way… posting a video where wounded arbalests were stucked on the cliffs and freak mangonel barely shot twice to kill 13-15 arbalests is not something what i ask for.its not a countering its just rare position in game.u know what i meant and still u are trolling me as u hate me but tell you what i dont care and im here to tell my thinkings and im free to say want i want so i dont care how u react but you are trying to marking me to others and im about to post your actions to authors this situation if u go further like this.İf u ever noticed i have deleted everything i wrote to you and you are still trolling me …I thought this forum is not for having personal discussion if u dare i can send my steam account there we can insult each other even we can try one on one why not ?
Maybe then u can pick turks and show me how you counter arbalests with mangonels in game right ?
So rare pros use them against them.
You asked to see a pro use a magonel kill arbs. I showed it.
Most those arbs it killed were full health.
And FYI that is how you go about killing arbs. micfo gives them an advantage. Take away that advantage and you win.
Hussars also kill arbs. You just got to be smart and take away their advantage. You can’t charge blindly ahead and hope to win.
Setup flanks and surrounds with your superior speed and win.
yea maybe hussars can help countering archers but its not easy thing …i couldnt manage to do that but maybe it could be done in that way.
but …Onagers and siege onagers are capable of counter arbalests and other imp age archer based units even infantries (so even cavarlies in some choke points that doesnt mean siege onager is cavarly counter) But using ‘‘7 range mangonel’’ against fu arbalest cant be called COUNTER . it may only be called try hard and hope the best situation. ı dont understand why are insisted on ‘‘mangonels to counter arbst???’’ no matter what u say i wont agree with that did you understand ? i wont agree with that weird approach and i will never try to use 7 range mangonels to counter longboes mangudais conquestedors arbalests jannis nothing … mangonel can conter xbows and skirmish thats it … and it can push castle age towers and tc’s …ofc mangos can counter scorps too but not heavy ones just scorps… No matter what u say i wont agree …I played this game ever since it was released
check civ tiers of hera and viper then speak about turks
Check the part where I said thry need love. I just disagree with you on them not having a counter to arbs.
they have weak counter to arblst lets say then…if they gonna be buffed it must be about their weaknesses in countering imp archer.
And i think hussar is not effective counter to imp archer or manguds,longows,plumed,conqs etc. but maybe they can help countering .
but trust me 7 range mangonel is not something that u can rely on countering those units.
And i kindly request you to delete or edit your comments calling me ‘‘dead mindset ,brain dead etc.’’
if i said anything to hurt you i would say im sorry…Going on so rude each other is not a proper action i believe.