A popularly Suggested Civ Bonus for the Turks, to forego their HUGE crippling weaknesses after Mid Imperial, in trash wars, on this forum is:
300 W - 350 W Trash Scorpions for the Turks starting the Castle Age.
I open this topic for further discussion on this specific sugested new civ bonus designed to make the Turks should make them multidimensional on land.
This will give them a viable trash option in lategame, while also functioning as the anti-archer and anti-elephant go-to unit for the Turks.
Every civilization should have multiple (if not as many as possible) strategies executable on land, so as not to not make them predictable.
their siege is also very underwhelming to what would be expected of them thematically. They also lack Siege Engineers, making it unlikely that these Trash Scorpions can be individually OP.
- Any evidence about Turks had great usage of scorpions in the Middle age?
- Trash siege weapon is dangerous. It will be 0 or 100. Remember here is talking about civ bonus instead of a tech, that means you will have this power FREE in the CASTLE AGE, no matter which civ.
Since Turks has good miner, it is really helpful to stable units and it also has great cavalry archer, no mention the power of fast imperial. Already multidimensional on land.
Something about this just feels iffy to me.
Scorpions are really, really good when massed up. And a bonus that allows you to mass up Scorpions by ignoring their gold cost seems like it wouldn’t give Turks multiple strategies, but one strategy of gunpowder and mass Scorpions.
I feel as though it would make Turks too good in trash wars. Since only Magyars have trash that can put up a fight with it.
Turks are supposed to suck once the gold runs out, and while they need a buff, giving them essentially free access (because when does wood become an issue after castle) to an awesome siege unit doesn’t seem like the way to do so. Is there even a thematic reason why such a buff would exist?
No. This kind of unit will either be way too op or useless. And the concept is also bad. Letting it very easy to mass a unit which gets stronger amd stronger with mass, and can hit multiple targets at once? And for a civ which’s identity is far from that? I won’t take it, sorry.
Ok, I will say my opinion once more for the last time, just so it’s not at least an 1 way discussion, but we can really ponderate the thing:
For the most, I’m against it.
Scorps are the best for crowd control and killing massed units, even castle age scorps that cost only wood could be ridicously massed, and then can kill and counter cost effective most archers and infanty.
Also in imp, usually it easy to mass wood.
If then the civ that get the trash scorps also get FU hussars (like italians or turks) then you can simply spam 2 trash units, that cost 2 different trash resources and perfectly cover each other weakness (hussars can kill onagers and act as a meatshield for melee, scorps kill halbs, camels and help tear dows any other unit).
The only trash solution for this would the magyar hussar, as for a gold answer, well there isn’t one, since you can just spam those 2 unis…
Maybe maybe franks or lithuanians paladins (+4R), if they don’t die sooner.
Bro remember how bad Persian crossbowmen are as a trade off for being wood only… Only doing 7 total damage is a hugr tradeofd compared to FU arbs. A number of units only take 1 damage from them. And even then there’s lots of complaint about it being OP
Now translate that to scorps? How would you even do that?
By making them cost 5x the wood
What about Turks get a buff that makes sense instead of trying to give them trash siege, which will always be too strong or useless if it costs too much?
What’s going to be your next troll post?
Trash cavalier? Wood and food onagers? Double attack cavalry archers?
Every time I see your arguments they don’t make sense. “Must be given” except Turks are a fine civ as is. Trash scorpions wouldn’t even cover any of their obvious weaknesses, aside from being completely op
Update: 11 @ Whoever flagged this as inappropriate. I wasn’t making a personal attack, I was explaining that this buff doesn’t make any sense and is similar in that regard to other suggestions op has made. If that’s so inappropriate, maybe you shouldn’t be active on the forums. We’re here to discuss the game, don’t be surprised if someone doesn’t blindly agree with you.
Yes ofcourse 400W (= 75 W * 5.33) non Siege Engineers scorpions will TOTALLY be broken AF OP, almost to Auto-win-trash-war and Auto-win-Imp-war levels obviously and everyone obviously should now this by now already
400W is too expensive making it just useless and it will be only effective with a mass of 30-40 of them and at that point thats just radically changing Turk playstyle
I agree. Talk that out with your friends @SpecificElk9218 and @DoctBaghi here who think otherwise.
I think 350W is balanced. If not 300W.
350 is still too much imo
I think its a terrible idea, I’d rather take Elite skirmisher, that’d less impact the Turk identity than this scorpion thing
400W for one Scorpion? Given how Scorpions need to be massed to be effective, that would be just impossible to build a decent army. 30 Scorpions would cost 12 000 wood.
The balancing is just as bad as the idea.
Make that 300W.
I think normal cost Scorpions are cheaper for Turks
That’s still 9 000 wood for 30 Scorpions.
Yes it is. And yet people like @SpecificElk9218, @LobsterEmperor and @phoenix1089 in this thread argue that this is completely BROKEN OP
they should cost 200W imo