Not in Castle. In Castle Age, Janisarries hard counter Skirms. Archers and Magonels by virtue of outranging them and their massive damage. Enough of the counter even knights. janisaries are the strongest unit in Castle Age, and the Turk Gold gather bonus lends itself to strong Janissary + Mangonel push.
It is also worth mentioning that Turks get Sipahi Cav Archers in Castle Age too.
Completely false. Cav Archers are expensicve because of the great valu you can get from them, and are not hard to mass at all.
This would make Turks have the Best Knights, the best Militia, the best Siegeā¦ Everything they would do would be the best, and there would be no point in playing anything but Tuirks.
This is more reasonable, but Turks already have a very strong Castle Age.
They already only have 3 Gunpowder Techs to research, and creating Gunpowder units faster actually helps them more.
Turks have always been in a bad position for arabia, and a kinda ok in Arena.
With the rework for Teutons, Turks can receive some similar treatment.
Turks have no real strategy in feudal, maybe spam archers to take advantage with the gold, and still there are 15 civs with a better archer rush.
Castle age can use the light cavalry for timing attacks. And still is strange, you would need to be pocket in team games to attack with light cavalry instead of knights.
Janissaries are good in castle age, but are not easy to produce. maybe a Krepost could help them.
Imperial is kinda random. Building canon towers with hussars, bombar canons and janissaries is not cheap. Building also takes a lot of villagers.
You are saying this from a stat standpoint. In order to get janisaries you first need to drop a castle, 650 stone, which means you will be already behind your opponent since you had 3-4vills in stone, then you need to mass them. And then they have to arrive to the opponent base. In all that time i can easily mass twice the amount of skirms or archers. The reason why this strategy works with spanish, which have conqs that are the closest thing to janis, and not with turks is because conqs have mobility. They play with conqs is snipe vills, and then retreat before the mass skirms arrive. Janis are slow, so they are really easy to overhelm.
If you have seen high level play you can notice that in order to mass cav archers you have to go 3 archery ranges rather than 2 because their creation time is slower than archers. You also need all archer BS techs. You also need a stable for Bloodlines + Husbandry. Then you need Thumb Ring and a university for Ballistics. And finally if you want the unique tech you need a castle and the tech. Just make the math and you will see is impossible with turk eco to do this because you will be overhelmed again.
Bonuses like extra attack, faster firing rate, cheap production are much more important than having extra 5-10hp for example. But i give you that it would be hard to balance.
The whole point of this thread is that Turks DO NOT HAVE a strong castle age. They cant afford any of their go-to units with 20% extra mining gold because is a horrible eco bonus.
If you seen my post, having gold units to create faster is the same as having gunpowder units to create faster since all gunpowder units cost gold, and also kicks in much earlier in the game if you make it work since feudal age. But you cant have a 15% gold-unit-creation team bonus because it would be broken. Thats why if you make that bonus only for the civ, and make the cheaper gunpowder tech a team bonus, is much more easy to balance and doesnt affect Turks at all.
Access to bbc in castle age. These bbc will have weaker stats than the normal bbc but should have at least 11 range to threaten castles.
They should get like a mini cav archer which will become to normal cav archer in castle age.
Access to Hand cannoniers in castle age. This would make their UU useless so turks should get a new UU.
Ability to create the scout line out of every production facilitiy like barracks or archery ranges.
Note: It is not necessary to give turks all of these bonuses. I only want to come up with some ācreativeā new ideas which will not include often mentioned ideas like stone mining upgrades for free or hussars with bonus damage against trash units.
Turks already have a very strong Castle Age, Jans + Mangos + Sipahi Cav Archers, are all viable in Castle, and all benefit from the Gold gather bonus.
Turks are only ever in trouble when they run out of Gold, which happens more in late Imperial Age.
Giving one of the strongest Castle Age pushing civs, another option in Castle Age, will need to have them significantly nerfed in other aspects, which would make Turks OP, or permanently crippled.
It would either be OP, or have to be strictly worse than Archers, and a waste of Gold.
Janissaries are already Catle Age HCs, no need to reinvent the wheel.
I donāt think itās possible to make a āpre-upradeā specific to one civ. Even if it is, at least for the CA it would be a bad idea. No thumb ring and no husbandry = a unit that is going to have a hard time hit and running (assuming you weakened its stats enough for it to not dominate other feudal units of course) Massing it in feudal could be hard because it would cost more than normal archers.
The point of the Janissary is to be a castle age HC that is better overall. Its stats are so strong the civ would be less interesting without them imo.
I donāt feel like itās hard to spam stables to have enough hussars late game. I donāt think it would be very useful.
The point of HC in CA is you can mass than easier than the UU from the castle. Dont forget turks desperately need a buff.
If you can train scouts from archery ranges you can save a lot of wood and you play mindgames with your opponent. Letās say you open with one archery range in feudal age and queue up some scouts in there. The enemy would assume you have some archers or skirms in the range and would probably make skirms to counter it. Your scouts would counter his skirms and would turn the tide.
HC are in general very situational since infantry is not the way to go for almost all the civs. But this is a general balance issue and is not Turks-specific
Assuming to avoid to add them e skirms, and that Turks need a small buff since the community is complaining about them, we may think to give them some bonus on their week anti archer option working without gold. Some examples (just one of them may be sufficient)
skirms trained super fast from castle age
skirms much cheaper from castle age
mangonels gold free
For instance, spammable skirms (either faster of cheaper) will not affect the late game with gold and will leave them still behind in a trash war and against crossbowman. This would just improve Turks in the scenarios in which they are unplayable. They would maintain ther strengths and weaknesses, but at least not super badā¦ their skirms may became just as bad as, say, slav/Persian onesā¦
I think Turks have a strong Castle Age, and should instead be pushed more towards Imperial Age, like Italians and Byzantines are.
It would be good, if Turks got a buff to their Spearmen and Skirmishers, when hitting Imp (hitting Imp seems to be an actual theme of the civ too).
Giving +15-30 HP to Skirmishers and spearmen in Imperial Age, would help Turk Trash out a lot.
As for Trash mangonels, these would need a greatly increased Wood Cost, and would have to lose Onager.
Trash Siege would be really powerful, specially the Mangonel line, which deals a lot of damage.
I would rather see a new civ designed for this, than just tack it on Turks, which have not the necessary design for such a powerhouse unit to go Trash.
Donāt buff Turk trash, make the gold units able to replace trash somewhat. Making the gold units cost less gold seems like the obvious choice and unlike the gold mining bonus, it would let Turks field gold units better even when the enemy makes it hard to take gold.
A dark age eco bonus would also improve their gameplay.
They already have the Gold gather bonus, and they can already go up really fast, specially when the Free Light Cavalry, Hussar and Chemistry.
Turks also have one of the strongest Castle Ages in the game, and they can use teh Gold bonus to Archer Rush, so they do not at all need help in previous ages.
Not all civs are Rush civs, but the Turks actually already are a viable Rush civ. They only even need help in late Imperial.