Unfair TG ranked game: The problems of current TG game

[StrayDog8037]

I am a 16+ in 1v1 and around 25-26+ in TG. Below is my 50 TG games playing in solo queue.

Soon or later, there will be less and less players playing the TG games because solo players will start noticing that they are used to shorten premade team queuing time and helping them on their unreasonable win rate and elo only. Few months, or a year later, when the player base in TG getting worse, if someone remember this post, push this up and let’s see what the queuing time it will be when people claim that we should never consider doing anything of placing solo and premade team together in a match because it will slow down premade team queuing time. They just don’t treat solo player’s time is time as premade.

As a solo when I play with solo I can get 60% win rate and if I dont count those ridiculous elo difference’s matches, it could be like 70%. However, when I face those premade, my win rate is about 30% only.
If you ask me, queuing 5 to 10 mins more instead of having a ridiculous one-sided game, no matter I am the winning side or losing side, I will definitely choose longer queue because playing a non-competitive game is just meaningless and no fun, it’s just waste of time.

To those solo players, I bet you won’t be surprised and I know you would feel the same how unfair of current TG games are. Grab a friend with you, try not to do any solo queue unless you want to be tortured by the unfair system. From now on, I will never play solo TG anymore unless I have friends
s invite me to do TG together. And I guess my TG games in future will be much lesser than before because I won’t take solo queue anymore.

===================================================================================
50 Games Summary: (updated on 7-Jun-2021)
my favoured map Arabia = 16% (8/50)
Win rate in total = 42% (21/50)
my teammates are solo VS opponents are solo too, win rate = 62% (13/21)
While my games of 8 solo players played together,
My team avg elo over opponets near or over 100 , win rate = 100% (2/2)
Opponets avg elo over my team near or over 100, win rate = 0% (0/4)
all my teammates are solo VS duo / premade team, win rate = 31% (5/16)
I was solo but in the premade team VS premade team, win rate = 42% (3/7)
I was solo but in the premade team vs solo, win rate = 50% (1/2)
Lost due to someone quit the game / afk = 8% (4/50)
Win due to someone quit the game / afk = 0% (0/50)

===================================================================================
1. premade team is having the map controlled advantages
They have more ban picks and favoured map votes than solo players, which let them has higher chances to get the map the want. for those solo players who dont do ALT F4, they need to play every type of map normally, while premade team can have more bans and also more votes to their favoured map.
2. premade vs premade, solo vs solo is the only fair way to form a game. Should always matchup between premade vs premade first.
I have already said too much on this. and I hate people keep deny that from their mouth but knows it’s true in the heart.
possible solution:
a. seperate solo and premade elo or queue.
b. when the queue is made, always pick up premade vs premade first, instead of just randomly pick players from the pool, to lower the chance of solo vs premade.
c. letting solo players have option to play against premade or not
d. make some elo matching adjustment if they put solo and premade togther.

3. They need to fix the elo matching, having a 300 ± difference among a 8 solo players pool is totally unacceptable.
someone might think that ±100 elo averagely is just acceptable, if 2500x4 vs 2600x4 it seems fine, but this is just the ideal case, it could be 2500x4 vs 2500x3+2900, could imagine the side vs the 2900 one will be totally screwed up.If they are actually able to balance the team, why we need to accept this unfairness?

4. Smurf. That’s simple to describe, it’s disgusting
5. afk or quitters. No punishment, great!
6. ALT F4. They should fixed this issue with the map pick and ban.
In my 50 games record, I almost play every different map constantly, while I know lots of people will just ALT F4 that because the single ban choice is kind of punishment for solos, while premade have few more ban choices? Does it really sounds fair to you? someone here told me it’s fair, to me this is ■■■■■■■■, 4 premade doesnt mean that they have few more ban choices means fair, it means that premade team only focuz on few maps they want to play and while solo players dont have any agreement with the team and they have to play every single different map.

===================================================================================
Lastly, there are full of selfish people here they are not argue with you with reasons, they don’t care fairness and balance of the game. Thought AOE2 players should be generally mature and smarter than the other game’s players but clearly I was wrong. Or they just don’t give a damn on fairness but their own advantages.
I don’t feel any hope of the playerbase of this game anymore, community here is selfish and devs dont care at all.

[ReanuKeeves00]

Hmm about points 1 and 2: You seem experienced enough that you should really not be queuing to TGs solo by now. So it seems like largely self-inflicted damage I get that new players initially need to queue solo to maybe bump into players to form teams with etc, but I’ve seen you around,* you’re not in that category.

3. On point. Annoying to have games where one team is just clearly stronger overall. But I think some of this will stem from points 1 and 2. If you bump into a real team as 4 solo players, you’re gonna have a bad time. The higher elo you reach the more you will bump into premade teams. So this is pretty much giving you a limit as to how far you can reach comfortably as a solo player.

4. is very very hard to fix or prevent, but I also don’t think it affects a huge number of games overall. Smurfs will quickly rise through the ranks, so you won’t bump into them too often. (making a smurf is usually not that fun anyway, stomping noobs gets boring and old very fast, plus it is bad for maintaining skill level, since you won’t be challenged by or learn anything from people that have hundreds of ELO less than you)

5. I think some of that also stems from point 1 and 2. Actual team mates less likely to bail on you than some random player. Especially if a randoms teams isn’t communicating well, it’s easy to just assume that your flank/pocket won’t help you anyway and just quit for greener pastures.

6. I think this one isn’t worth mixing into your other points, as it’s really worth a separate topic on its own (and that already exists and is pinned…)

BTW, I did try to play some team games while queuing solo and it was a pretty awful experience (not being able to communicate, team mates being toxic to each other, team mates attack grounding each other with siege and basically throwing games etc.), I don’t think there is any easy technical solution, and you’re honestly just better off not playing team games in solo once you reach a certain level.

EDIT: (but I’ve seen you around)* if you are who I think you are lol

[StrayDog8037]

yeah, I wish I am able to edit the old one so I dont need to make a new post here.
The reason i doing solo queue now is kind of want to prove what I said.
Because most of the people disagreed what I have raised before. I am trying to make a bit static way to prove it but like what you said, I shouldnt do any solo queue as I really cannot do this anymore.

One of the point you mentioned about the random players always argue or get mad, I agreed, and one of the most common stuffs is pocket doing full boom.
Mostly the lower elo one they are tend to choose the pocket once the game is created, because they are afraid to be the flank, Flank is a position that always having a 1v2 position. And those lower elo players they dont know which map can boom and which map cannot, or base on the situation to stop the boom to help the flank.

[ReanuKeeves00]

@StrayDog8037

Because most of the people disagreed what I have raised before.

Haha, I absolutely don’t disagree. Queuing solo in TG is not a pleasant experience. I just don’t think there is a technical solution (or at least if there is, it’s a lot more complex than players finding a team).

but one thing I think should be not too impossible is better social functions in the game and around the game. Make it easier for people to connect. I think that should be encouraged and implemented if resources allow…

[StrayDog8037]

I think seperate the queue is the most fair way. But since we dont have any player stat in ranked game, only the dev knows it, so this might or might not cause the issue about the longer queue time for premade team.

But there’s a option that likely for the first 5mins queueing, it is mostly matching up between premade vs premade or solo vs solo, after the 5mins gone and the pool is not enough to form a game, then mix it.
It can avoid premade vs solo so oftenly.

I agree, I think premade team somehow is a kind of essential of grouping and keeping people to play together. However, the situation right now, is kind of denying solo players to play TG, this should be a huge numbers that they should consider too.

[ReanuKeeves00]

I think they will not implement it. A solo only TG queue will be much worse with the ALT+F4 problem… as at least in premade teams it’s less likely that one member just screws the rest of the team out of a game. But in a solo only TG queue you have much higher chances (because now there is only solo on both ‘sides’ of the queue). More map bans could be an option, but also not an easy option, because you want to have assurances that no situation can occur where every map is banned between all the players.

[StrayDog8037]

for the ban maps, this is simple, limit the votes and ban of premade team to 1 only.

for the queuing, i think you misunderstand my meaning, let me explain as an example.
a 4 people premade team starts queuing in the game, for the first 5 or 10mins, they will only match up another premade team. if the pool doesnt have a match, then after 5 or 10mins, they might able to match up with solo players.
This is they way trying to map up premade to premade first, I see a lot of ongoing games at the same time that few games at the same times are premade vs solo…
The more fairway is to group them together in a game first, not just randomly matching up premade vs solo.

[ReanuKeeves00]

@StrayDog8037

for the ban maps, this is simple, limit the votes and ban of premade team to 1 only.

Then you will get back into the ALT+F4 problem, because then the team might agree to just bail maps they dont want to play ~ since it’s enough for just one of the people to actually quit the game

@StrayDog8037

a 4 people premade team starts queuing in the game, for the first 5 or 10mins, they will only match up another premade team. if the pool doesnt have a match, then after 5 or 10mins, they might able to match up with solo players.

On the other hand, I like this idea, could be a good experiment to add into the game to see if it makes things better

[StrayDog8037]

yes, ALT F4 must need to resolve, it’s ridiculous I have to wait over 30 mins of my 2 games today because of this.

[ReanuKeeves00]

That is why we need to push for better social functions. It will be the best way to reduce it. When I play with my team we almost never ALT+F4. As the amount of bans is usually enough to not need to

[StrayDog8037]

I think most of the solo players doing the ALT F4 because they have only 1 ban choices.
Sometimes if a player doesnt want to play the sea map, they wont able to ban all by 1 choices because They wouldnt like mega random at all.

Usually like you said, premade alreaday have enough ban choices which TBH is not fair to those solos. and besides, 4 people agree to ALT F4, it’s likely wasting everyone 10mins (10mins x 4 memebers), I dont think this is usually happened among premade.

but whatever, ALF F4 is already pinned in other post, what I mostly concern about TG is not ALT F4 at all.

[SouBotsito]

The multiplayer(tg) is a waste of time if you are playing solo, the experience is the worst from all game platforms across the years.

I stopped using one nick for one month then i got-200 points, so i thought i should be able to win easily while being underrated but it was true for the first games, then i started getting matched with guys 300 and 500 points above my rank and allies 300 points below my current rank on that account, what a waste of time, also i was facing a common user of this forum who persistently bans arabia cause of the fixed positions while he was stacking with his usa friends, they were manipulating the maps during my queue for 1 hour.

The system is all wrong, it shouldn’t give premades the control of the maps, it shouldn’t match you with allies several ranks below your rank and it should never match you with guys +400 points above your rank.

Altf4 and early resign was my only escape to prevent a bigger waste of time for all the players involved, that shouldn’t be a thing but there is no other exit, unless you want to play to lose.

[StrayDog8037]

agreed of what you said, therefore, Alt F4 is required to fixed with the map pool dominate issue.

[StrayDog8037]

yeah, I wish I am able to edit the old one so I dont need to make a new post here.
The reason i doing solo queue now is kind of want to prove what I said.
Because most of the people disagreed what I have raised before. I am trying to make a bit static way to prove it but like what you said, I shouldnt do any solo queue as I really cannot do this anymore.

One of the point you mentioned about the random players always argue or get mad, I agreed, and one of the most common stuffs is pocket doing full boom.
Mostly the lower elo one they are tend to choose the pocket once the game is created, because they are afraid to be the flank, Flank is a position that always having a 1v2 position. And those lower elo players they dont know which map can boom and which map cannot, or base on the situation to stop the boom to help the flank.

[WoodsierCorn696]

We disagree a lot, but these kind of matches are ridiculous. In general i have a lot of questions on the matching algorithm in general. This is one of them. Average rating needs to be close. If that isnt the case, then something is wrong with these matchings.

(for some reason you edit your 17xx TG elo example, so it isnt part of your post anymore?!

[StrayDog8037]

yes, beside of the inflated one, I do want to raise out other real problems here, to voice out for solo players in TG.

I admit that I am very new of using this forum, I am trying to edit the post by adding any new games and for records. my ultimate goal is making a 100 games but I am not sure if i can keep doing it.

[gnarfk]

There are some points i totally agree with you :

3. i totally agree. They could improve the team making algorithm ( make the team AFTER 8 players are found instead of BEFORE would be a huge improvement already )
4. i totally agree. smurfs are players that play AGAINST the goal of the matchmaking system …
5. we could think of a signalment system, but it would require people to check …
6. Alt f4 is a problem… is it a problem of the players or of the map choosing system ?

I would add :

7. DESYNC : something should really be done against that …

Finally, a point on which i don’t fully agree :

2. What is the problem is when players play sometimes solo (lowering their rating) and sometimes premade (playing against lower opponents because they lost rating playing solo). I think giving for each player a solo and a premade rating, or even rating for every premade team, could solve the matchmaking problem.

[StrayDog8037]

for point 5, yes, defintely, they really need to find a way to solve this out. right now I have 30 games not, 4 afk players and caused me lost. This is not a small number at all.

for point 2, yes, agree, sperate elo is what I raised before ,thanks for remind, I will amend my post also.

for point 6, I think this is somehow related to point 1 also, they should improve the ban pick map system and to punish ALT F4 at the same time.

[StrayDog8037]

I think every 10 game in a reply is more suitable instead of posting everygame in my 1st post.

Game1: Lost
map: Crossroad
my team: 4 solo (elo difference: -109)
Opponent: 2 solo + duo (elo difference: +109)
Summary: elo not balanced, duo team, 8P solo ranking is 1900 up, but that’s another issue, whatever my side would be lost, but the players matching is bad. They could have balance up the different.

Game2: Lost
map: Arena
my team: 4 solo (elo difference: -34)
Opponent: premade team (elo difference: +34)
Summary: solo vs premade team, we should win our side, but 5P 7P is dead too easily, what I blame is the premade advantages

Game3: Lost
map: Afracia
my team: 4 solo (elo difference: -86)
Opponent: 2 solo + 2 duo (elo difference: +86)
Summary: solo vs duo team, unblanced elo matching my civ was countered by my nearby opponent 4p, and I think he’s a half smurf account, his real elo should be higher as his winrate is now 66%

Game4: Win
map: Afracia
my team: 4 solo (elo difference: -54)
Opponent: 4 solo (elo difference: +54)
Summary: solo vs solo, elo different -54, fine to me. I m just wondering why my team’s elo always the lower side

Game5: Win
map: Afracia
my team: 4 solo (elo difference: +127)
Opponent: 4 solo (elo difference: -127)
Summary: solo vs solo, elo different 127? I believe a 8 solo players pool can have a better team distribution. This game is kind of one sided.

Game6: Win
map: Team Moats
my team: 1 solo (I am the solo) + 3 premade (elo difference: +129)
Opponent: 1 solo + 3 premade (elo difference: -129)
Summary: elo difference, nothing special, one sided game

Game 7: Lose
map: Carter
my team: 4 solo players (+44)
opponent: 4 premade (-44)
Summary: this show you how one-sided it is, the fastest one sided game of today.
They chose specific map, with specific stragegy, solo flank players are nearly impossible to handle if they are in similar elo.

Game 8: Win
map: Arena
my team: 4 solo players (-56)
opponent: 4 solo players (+56)
Summary: faired game

Game9: Lost
Map: Arabia
my team: 2 solo + 2 premade (+60)
opponents: premade (-60)
Summary: 8P using a smurf account, another side can’t hold it and we lost the game.

Game10: Lost
Map: Arena
my team: 4 solo (+72)
opponents: 4 solo (-72)
Summary: bit suprised checking the elo result as we have elo advantages but the game is pretty one sided. I am the only player in the team who killed the opponent.

Game11: Lost (This one wont be counted as someone is afk)

6P afk, no punishment for AFK in TG is a mistake, though it’'s not happened a lot.

Game12: Win
Map: Hideout
my team: 4 solo (+18)
opponents: 4 solo (-18)
Summary: the most even game so far, played around an hour, or it’s the map issue, it played just like Oasis. I would like to give a comment to my pocket in this game, unless you are confident to your flank, otherwise free booming in hideout is letting the flanks die. I am quite suprised many 25, 26+ are still doing this action. and indeed, their imp time is slow, I think a standard imp time for a 25+ should be at least @28min if doing free booming.
I am kind of lucky that 2P 4P are not doing full attack to me.

Game13: Lost
Map: Arabia
my team: 2 solo + 2 Duo (+7)
opponents: 4 premade (-7)
Summary: nothing special, another side died too quickly. I was having 1v2 since 25mins.

Game14: Win
Map: Arabia
my team: 4 solo (+19)
opponents: 4 premade (-19)
Summary: seems cannot have any easy win today, this game was actually we 4v3 as 8P is kind of new, a real new player, but 2P is fatdragon. so things not going easy here. If this premade team not including 8P, there’s no chance to win.

Game15: Win
Map: Black Froest
my team: 2 solo + 2 Duo (-75)
opponents: 2 solo + 2 Duo (+75)
Summary: I am the flank vs duo, though I had a good fight in dark age, it’s just really hard to defend the special stragegy in such maps. (There could be many kind of different stragegy in this map), the hardest one probably the indian castle break out the forest.
2P resigned in the middle that’s why we wont it. Otherwise, I just broke by stragegy.

Gam16: : Lost
Map: golden pit
my team: 4 solo (+14)
opponents: 4 premade (-14)
Summary: that’s the issue of solo vs premade, 3P is even 1700 in solo ranking, however, he’s doing almost full boom and letting me 1v2. while the others are having heavy army and strategy causing the lost game.

Game17: Lost
Map: Nomad
my team: 4 solo (-159)
opponents: 4 solo(+159)
Summary: 8 solo players and they matched up a game with 159 elo difference. This game end before 30mins, pretty one sided.

Game18: Win
Map: Nomad
my team: 4 solo (+33)
opponents: 4 solo (-33)
Summary: no comment

Game19: Lost (24 mins game)
Map: gold pit
my team: 4 solo (-305)
opponents: 1 solo + 3 permade (+305)
Summary: Very classic example of how ridiculous this TG matching is.

Game20: Lost

2P AFK, uncounted.
again, this is the only online game I know that there’s no punishment for afk players

Game21: Lost

I have been waiting over 40mins for this game, other ALT F4 about 4 to 5 times, I dont like BF, arena at all, but I never to ALT F4. It’s really funny that players here are okay with this while saying that seperate solo and duo will increase the queue time.

and after the long queuing time, 8P just resign at around 2 or 3min, I think I am not the 1st time seeing him doing this.
report is just meaningless and TBH, it feels like this game is no longer playable to me.

game22: Lost
Map: hideout
my team: 2 solo + 2duo
opponents: 4 solo
Summary: my civ is countered by 8p, my pocket 29mins reach imp but till in 35 mins he’s not making any army…he chose to did the upgrade before making knights first, this is kind of surprising me as he’s similar elo with me.
The other side duo team they won it. But my side just died too fast.

This is captured @35mins, it happens a lot in solo ranked game.

game 23 to game 30
Game23: Win
Map: golden pit
my team: 4 solo (-19)
opponents: 4 solo(+19)
comment: nope

Game24: Lose
Map: Nomad
my team: 4 solo (-351)
opponents: 4 solo(+351)
comment: you must be kidding me, 351 elo difference, how come my side will have a TG1730 guy here? This is one of the most ridiculous match.

Game25: Lose
Map: Nomad
my team: 4 solo (-98)
opponents: 4 solo(+98)
comment: 8 solo players pool could to much better of elo balancing, this game isnt very onesided one but could feel the difference.

Game26: Lose
Map: Arena
my team: 4 solo (+71)
opponents: 4 solo (-71)
comment: 1P and 3P just not belongs to 2400, not surprised another side was broken so fast.

Game27: Win
Map: Arena
my team: 4 solo (+9)
opponents: 4 solo (-9)
comment: no comment

Game28: Win
Map: Arabia
my team 2 solo + 2 duo (+235)
opponents: 4 solo (-235)
comment: again! Elo difference 235, and even the higher elo team is with a duo players. This is another classic unbalance game.

Game29: Lost
Comment: 2P early resign, not counted. when 2P puased the game at the beginning, 3P just immediately unpaused it, I think everyone agrees this is not a proper manner in AOE culture for unpause like this.
and after 2P early resign, 7P said:
Then I decided to play with them a longer time so it doesnt make the point that easy : )

Game30: Lost
Map: Arabia
my team 4 solo (+48)
opponents: 4 premade (-48)
comment: nope

[StrayDog8037]

Game 31 to 40

Gam31: Lost
Map: Arena
my team: 4 solo (-167)
opponents: 4 solo (+167)
comment: another ridiculous elo difference

Game32: Win
Map: Black forest
my team: 4 solo (+188)
opponents: 4 solo (-188)
Comment: our 2P even resign very early at the start, but the elo difference making us able to 3v4 in the game. Sounds crazy right? Don’t ever said ±100 or 200 elo is fine, averagly ± 100 it might be a 400 elo difference for a player.

Game33: Win
Map: Arena
my team: 2 solo + 2 duo (-25)
opponents: 4 premade (+25)
comment: nope

Game34: Lost
Map: Arena
my team: 4 solo (+32)
opponents: 4 solo (-32)
comment: nope

Game35: Lost
Map: Arabia
my team: 4 solo (+23)
opponents: 2 duo + 2 solo (-23)
comment: 1P 3P resigned at around 40min, then we 2v4 and fight back, last long till around 90mins. If they didnt give up, maybe we can win this game.

Game36: Win
Map: Arena
my team: Solo
Opponets: Duo
comment: I will try to do pocket more from now on : )

Game37: Lost
Map: Arabia
my team: 2 solo 2 duo (same elo)
Opponets: 1 solo 3 duo (same elo)
comment: play kind of good in this game, we should win our side but another side resign too fast again.

Game38: Lost
Map: Baltic
my team: 4 solo (-4)
Opponets: 1 solo 3 premade (+4)
comment: this is 1st time I play this map, such map defintely not advantage to solo players and I think this map needs corp quite specificlly (who goes fish, flanks need to wall or archers? I dont know) 1P is screwed by them at 22min.

Game39: Win
Map: Volcanic Island
my team: 4 solo (-22)
Opponets: 1 solo 3 premade (+22)
comment: 1st time playing this map. Again it’s them, now I get it, they are using the premade advantages ban all those popular map in order to go to those weird maps to beat the solo players who doesnt ALT F4

Game40: Lose
Map: Arena
my team 4 solo (-20)
oppoents: 4 premade (+20)
comment: smurf premade, no expectation.