It will make them suck rally bad. This is a thread about buffing elephants not nerfing them. No longer can I have 110 villagers and 30 trade villagers. My horde of elephants will be puny.
Gone be the days of War Elephant spam with them taking up so much pop space.
If you have a stronger ele, more durable, you donāt need such a huge eco behind to replenish forces, so you could take the risk and reduce your eco pop to boost your army.
The only way I see it being fair if population was raised to 250 in ranked. But even that would cause problems
because 2 population space would make it terrible. think about it - the calling card of the unit is the population efficiency it has. right now itās expensive but even with 140 villagers you can make 60 of them. with your change your stuck at 30. while your opponent has more like 70 pop.
it helps them against halbs - but makes them worse vs everything else. (and iām not sure its a buff against halbs ,37% less bonus damage but twice the popā¦
Because to sustain Elephant production you need very strong eco. For 5 Stables you need 123 Vills. So this left spase for 77 units. But you will be able to field only 38 Eles. And 38 Eles for sure would lose to around 100 enemies, especially when buffed Scorps will be involved.
But you shouldnāt train just elesā¦ Eles should be part of a composition army, They need supportā¦
Then even smaller number of eles
I actually liked the idea of a separate armour class for BE. They are not as tanky and not as strong as WE. So should get less bonus damage from halbs.
Elephants need support, so making them cost more pop means you either have no support for them, even fewer elephants, or no economy to sustain it
How about make eles a strong attack unit. They die quickly but can take out a substantial number of enemy unit on close up. So everything remains as is and buff the attack a little till is balanced.
A War Elephant would need like 1200 hp to be useful if they cost 2 pop.
Battle Eles are fine in standard BF / closed map games, I think BoA is a little too open to support Elephants, while you do see Battle Eles regularly in BF games. The problem in Rage Forest is moreso just that they lack mobility and are weak to Halb + Siege which you see very often in RF games, but just yesterday I think War Ele + Elephant Archer won (Missed the latter half of the game tho)? Weaker BF players donāt do siege as much, so Elephants are stronger then.
Itās much easier to raid your enemy with a cut and Cavalier/Paladin than it is with Eles, or kill them all with Siege when youāve anticipated the cut. Add monk vulnerability on top and they just fall so much more behind than Paladins do.
So not a beefy tanking unit. Something you make to just quickly reduce substantially a large no of weak units.
Uh iām skimming the rage forest series right now and iām seeing elephants in almost every series that an elephant civ is included in.
even the much maligned āBALLISTA AND ELEPHANT ARCHERSā are seeing use.
The whole point is though, even on these maps, you still arenāt seeing elephants. You can talk as much as you like about how people are only saying something due to not having experienced a certain scenario, but if no one is actually experiencing that scenario, then I donāt think itās actually applicable to the case in point.
except this isnāt true. Iāve literally watched the first 5 series of rage forest and seeing elephants a lotā¦ even the āBad Elephant archersā are seeing use in pretty much any series Indians sees use in.
Elephant Archers are one of the strongest Elephants in Rage Forest, weāre talking about Battle Elephants here.
Which they also do see some use, but are much more fragile to Halb+Siege.
and iāve seen plenty of those as well.
that they are, and i agree that the bonus damage could be toned down a little on them (BE only), but letās not pretend these units are non existent. every single series has had battle elephants. which says alot about how good they are on closed maps.
funny, Iāve skimmed just the first 5 or 6 series of Rage forest, and Iāve seen elephants used in almost every series, so where are you getting this information from? Your lies do you no favors.
Too much to read here atm, so someone might have said it already, I definitely think halbs could be toned down Vs eles. Could even try 50 bonus in the pup instead of 60. If 40 is too little. Itās just a numbers game
The Devs arenāt gods, everything they do isnāt always perfect, which means they might not have the perfect balance between halbs and eles. And the sheer lack of usage of eles is an indicator of such.
A big part of this was the general nerf to eles to offset Khmer power. They should have buffed non Khmer eles in conjunction with the nerf. But apparently this was too forward thinking .
That being said the nerf was arguably too much anyway.
In the exact same way the original SL nerf was too much.