I know the PLC had unique systems, but their star unit is already a Vasa unit and the Pancerni is a Jagiellon tech. I could see these being shifted around, as there are other options to replace them with as renames. The Drab infantryman or ########### perhaps.
But for Denmark what reasonable units could be used that aren’t naval units? I can’t think of any cavalry or infantry that aren’t already in the game one way or another.
This also includes Royal Guard units
During the timeframe Denmark and Norway is still a single kingdom, so my random guess it could be Norwegian Ski Infantry, they are mostly a mobile light infantry. My take it would be a 4.5 speed skirmisher with active ability like Carolean, the active ability make them use their ski equipment (even in jungle) and move at the speed of 6.0, but unable to attack.
Northern Europe does not have jungles
I mean by jungle if the map is like Bayou, Orinoco, etc. they still have that ability. Not that the real life Ski Infantry use their ski in jungle…
I dont know, but I’ll bet its an infantry with 4.5 speed
I think someone who did a write up for Denmark said they had a musketeer type unit famous for crumbling in melee. It could be interesting if they had a musk that sucked in melee while having a normal ranged attack along with a bonus vs cavalry.
Perhaps something like this stat wise:
70f 20c 1pop
Speed 4
130hp 20% Ranged Armor
Ranged Attack 22, 2x vs cavalry, 12 range.
Siege Attack 16
Melee Attack 5, 3x vs cavalry.
caroleans but worse by every metric
Just brainstorming for fun.
For the Danes:
For the Poles:
Apart from some popular to-go options, Poles could also have
Lisowczyk: high damage low hp horse archer
Scytheman: maybe a weak militia that can also be called from houses?
Uhlan should be a semi-unique unit shared by Germans and Poles (like how horse archer works).
It might just be a Cavalry Archer (Royal Guard).
Definitely UU for Poles civ should be Szlachcic and ########## The Kosynier (Scytheman) may simply be an upgrade to the Cham (Eastern European settler).
These Unique Units are confirmed for Poles -
Personally, I’d design the civs such that their shared “gimmick” is unlocking an unit with each age up politician (at least ages 2-4). Their default rosters would be lacking, but when you unlock different units they fill gaps. Both would have unique other traits and a unique take on that trait as well.
Denmark/Norway Civ bonus:
Age ups cost wood instead of coin, but give substantially more supplies upon age up. With each age up chose powerful units from Denmark or Norway. (Note, this would be a massive boost in age 2 since you’re still paying 800 food for a similarly larger bonus). Likely you’d pick between 2 units with each age up.
Poland/Lithuanian Commonwealth Civ Bonus:
With each age up chose powerful cavalry units from Poland, Lithuania or Eastern European allies. Buildings have less Hitpoints, but cost less wood. Stables slowly produce powerful Winged Hussars for free in addition to training other cavalry units normally. More stables can be constructed in later ages. Likely you’d choose between 3 age ups.
I don’t think coming up with units would be too hard. Poland historical was very cavalry heavy. Obviously, Winged Hussars, but they can also have Lipka Tartars. Rekurts would also likely work as a musketeer.
Denmark/Norway could logically have Norwegian Ski Infantry. I think someone said Denmark had a musketeer that crumbled in melee.
In that case they should not have some worse Musketeer equivalent, but rather have normal Musketeers, but with few ways to improve them; It would only be justified to have weaker musketeers if they were cheaper, like the Russian Rekrut.
And yet with those so-called bad Musketeers, Denmark managed to win many battles and wars. Over time, Swedish military history became somewhat more popular thanks to the exploits of Gustavus Adolphus, but it’s not like Sweden was more powerful than Denmark during the timeframe of this game, I personally consider that Denmark and Sweden are pretty tied in terms of overall military victories, and that the supposed weakness of the Danish Musketeers is a myth that originates in the perception of one or another battle that went badly for them (As happens in all wars).
Also, I must add that I don’t like that the Musketeers have good ranged attack against cavalry, it’s not something that is good for balance or makes sense (why do these Musketeers and the other Musketeers not?). I don’t like that trait in the Revolutionaries or the Caroleans.
I might have been overly cautious when suggesting stats, but the stats I suggested would, I believe, allow them to trade effectively against Musketeers at range while costing slightly less. Additionally I was giving them almost 2x the range damage vs cavalry.
The basic design was “musketeer as a goon” but designed better than the Carolean that tried it first. Obviously, we don’t want anything as strong as the early Caroleans.
I’d consider giving them some extra range with their upgrades, along with British style upgrade cards.
Obviously I can’t argue with personal preferences, but one could make a similar argument for “why do Skirmishers do extra damage to certain types of infantry?” “why do dragoons do extra damage to cavalry?”. The answer is game design and balance decisions.
In my opinion, consistency should be maintained in the bonuses, etc. of units of the same type, and if there are differences there should be some justification. For example, Janissaries and Caroleans have better base hand attack damage than Musketeers because they use swords, but for the same reason their melee damage bonus against cavalry is worse, while Musketeers have better melee bonus against cavalry because they use muskets with bayonets, etc.
Why does the musket of such a Musketeer do more damage to cavalry and the musket of other Musketeers does not? Why should a certain unit be considered a Musketeer if he behaves so differently from other Musketeers?
In certain units, his bonuses are justified for reasons of historical effectiveness. Skirmishers beat Musketeers because rifles are more expensive but have better range and accuracy than muskets. Dragoons defeat heavy cavalry because they have the initiative in combat thanks to the use of carbines and pistols, but they are defeated by Musketeers and Skirmishers because muskets and rifles have better range and accuracy than carbines and pistols.
For reasons like these, in addition to the ease of balancing and the ease of learning how units of the same type work, units of the same type (Musketeers, Skirmishers, Dragoons, etc.) must maintain some consistency in their bonuses, unless that there is some kind of justification as I mentioned before.
Sufficiently logical for a video game, and I might actually be inclined to give it a pass and agree. But it also kinda doesn’t matter as the devs clearly want unique units that vary more than the original UUs did.
I’d say the logic for this unit behaving differently would be that the line infantry it’s based on supposedly was great in ranged combat but crumbled in melee. Muskets still need to beat cavalry, therefore my suggestion.
I’m not sure which post I’m remembering where someone said the Danish had a musketeer that behaved like that, for all I know it’s exaggerated substantially, but it’s certainly a unique take on a classic unit that could be interesting to have in the game imo.
It’s this post about a potential danish civ.
According to a source by George Gush, perhaps the best options for Poland could be
Drab (short for Drabant, but we can’t use that) or Haiduk for infantry, which could start with an Eastern European/Hungarian appearance before becoming more western looking. This would allow Poland to have weaker infantry. He would use an axe as a melee weapon
The polish Halberdier could be like the Russian Poruchik, but with a different name
Cavalry could be pretty diverse. Dragoons, Winged Hussars, Registered Cossacks, Pancerni or ########### Royal House techs/units could be shifted as needed.
Lisowczyks seem too short lived and would be a better mercenary, i think.
Poland could also have unique artillery Octave (Falconet) and Kolyubrynas (Culverin)
One of their cavalry royal guard upgrades could maybe be the Krakus, a sort of 19th century cavalryman similar to an uhlan.
Here is the Source: http://myarmoury.com/feature_armies_poles.html
As for Denmark, they could have a unique heavy cavalryman called the Rytterre perhaps? This could also be a royal guard. I dont know what else they could have aside from what’s been mentioned. Espingol, perhaps, seems a bit too late though. Maybe as a card unit for age 4.
The blanked out cavalry is Petihorai. Here it is in Lithuanian because the censor keeps bleeping it out for some reason. I don’t know why.
