Second poll, how many factions do you think should be added to South Asia?
None
1
2
3
4
5+
I don’t know
I don’t care
0voters
Some times ago I made a poll asking which area of the world should be focused on next by the devs, and South Asia received the more votes (18% out of 80 voters). The poll may have been imperfect, but it’s an interesting result. Many people could have seen Indians as a sensible umbrella civ (not my opinion), but it seems this idea isn’t so popular on this forum. Now, it’s one thing to say we need more factions from this area, it’s another one to tell which of those should be added, so I decided to create a new poll to answer this question (other may come later for the rest of the world).
A few things I need to mention, though:
I’m not an expert on Indian history. Most of what I know come from strategy games, wikipedia and a few history magazines. I may be lacking a few important informations regarding some of the candidates or none candidates. Don’t hesitate to point it out to me, but please try to remain civil in the comments. Also, take into consideration that even though the result may not be up to your standard, I’ve still put quite some time and energy for this thread.
As a result of the previous point, I may have missed or overlooked some interesting options. You can obviously talk about those, I’m always happy to learn more.
It goes without saying that just because I put one civ in this poll doesn’t mean I support its addition to the game, I just tried to be as exhaustive as I could.
You may notice that none of those civs could correctly represent some of the major empires in this era, such as the Delhi Sultanate or the Mughal Empire. Simply put, I thought the current Indian faction could correctly represent those (though I would be in favor of renaming it as “Hindustani” for several reasons). Regarding the Gurjara-Pratihara dynasty or the Gupta empire, I’m not certain which civ would better represent them.
I know some people have a definitive list of things a civ needs to be added in game (something you could turn into an UU, a building that could work as wonder, a historical figure you could create a campaign around…) Those are not things I took into account to create this list, because I did’t think it would be an efficient approach. I don’t mean it’s not an effective filter, just that this filter should be applied during the vote, not before (and as a matter of fact, it’s something I will take into account while voting myself). My criterias to build this poll were as follow: Each needs to represent at least one state that was independant/autonomous and policaly relevant during at least half a century during this time period, and have been at some point involved in some wars. There are a few exceptions for ethnies that were mostly relevant in Modern history but at the very least were used as mercenaries in sufficient numbers during the Medieval era.
I would say 3.
a southern faction: Chola, Tamil, etc
an eastern faction: Bengal probably
and a northwest: Rajput, Afghan, Ghurid, etc
If we need a 4th, I would say Nepal but probably not as a south Asian faction
I think the Ghurids would fall under either Persians or Afghans. They are a dynasty, not a people, and as such I don’t see them being added as their own civ.
Yeah you are prob right that they wont get added just as “Ghurids”, but calling them Afghans is a bit odd for some people even if thats how I usually call them
Well, the term “Afghans” is often used to speak about Pashtos people in Medieval contexts, and even though the Ghurids were possibly a Tajik dynasty (Tajik still being an Iranian people, just like Persians and Pashtos), they did rule from Afghanistan.
I think they are able to be represented by the current Indian civ.
Sinhalese? I remember that there was a Sri Lankan user having argued that no any Indian civ could represent his people and history well, particularly against letting the Tamils (Dravidians) represent the Sinhalese. Although we all understand that it is impossible to make every ethnic group a civ.
I support that add 2 new civ too, the Bengals and the Dravidians, the East and the South, the Buddhists and the Hindus.
Eh, I think that its a bit weird that you are representing civs famous for their heavy cav with Indians. Tbh only civ I think its proper represented is Mughal
Either way yeah current Indians represent them and theres not much to do about it, at least inthe case of the Rajputs
Yeah, I think Sinhalese is, together with Maldivian, the only language in this part of South Asia to be classified as Indo-Aryan rather than Dravidian, and the Tamil arrival in Sri Lanka was not necessarily peaceful. However, they are not high on my list of factions I’d like to see in the game.
The civ good at camels fit the northwest rather than other regions of the subcontinent.
Yes the current Indians having no heavy cavalries itself is weird honestly. I don’t oppose giving them the cavaliers in my opinion but some people may dislike to erase their so-called identity.
On the other hand, Ghurids before invading the subcontinent can be covered by the Persians since they are Iranic people. Maybe able to be represented by the potential Sogdians because they both are the Eastern Iranians.
Thank you @Temudhun for this great poll which was quite a bit of work!
I agree that “Indians” could be renamed “Hindustanis” as they represent Delhi Sultanate, Mughals and unfortunately also Rajputs at the same time. While I would welcome separate Rajputs, this will not happen due to the already existing “Indian”/Rajput Prithviraj campaign.
Imho, the essential civs to be added are:
Tamils. They are the historically most important civ missing (worldwide!). Compare the Cholas’ importance to Burgundians… They definitely deserve to be included in a future DLC.
Bengalis & 3. Kannadigas
These two have been heavily influential, too, both on a regional scale and beyond. I have worked out a proposal for a DLC with Tamils and Bengalis, for those interested.
Kannadigas represent significant kingdoms through the whole medival period, so there are various campaign options for them as well.
If more civs are to be added, Telugus or Odias might be next.
Let’s hope developers show some attention for India and make it happen!
You welcome, and thank you for the kind words.
I agree Tamils is the most important faction to add (hell, it’s requested by over 50% peoples on this poll), though on a worldwide basis I would probably put the Jurchen first, but not by a far margin. Bengalis is an obvious second, if anything because of how evoctive this name is, but also because of the importance of the Pala Empire during the Classical Period. The Bengal Sultanate also briefly rose to prominence between the fall of the Delhi Sultanate and the rise of the Mughal, and the faction could also cover the many Assamese kingdoms to the north.
But more importantly, even though they are less requested, Kannadigas are one of my personal favorites. I’m probably biased because of how much fun I’ve had playing as Vijayanagara in Europa Universalis, but I think there’s really something to do with them. They would be a more land based faction compared to the probably navy oriented Tamils.
Regarding Rajputs/Rajasthani, I wish the devs would rework the Prithviraj campaign entirely to change the leading faction (assuming they would be split apart), and give us a new Indian/Hindustani Babur campaign, but maybe it would be too much work…
Anyway, if you could put a link for your DLC proposal, I’m interested.
EDIT: Thai/Siamese are also among the most important missing civs.
Great mate, we share many opinions. Oh yes, a Babur campaign would be great! Here are my ideas for an Indian DLC so far
Perhaps I find time somewhen to sketch out potential bonuses and campaigns for Kannadigas, let’s see.
Tamils, Bengalis, Afghans. sounds perfect to me!
Of course, they don’t have to use those exact names, like I know there’s controversy with Tamils according to some Indians.
Kannadigas can also have campaigns based on the conflicts with Deccanis which eventually led to Battle of Talikota causing the fall of second largest city in the world of 1500AD (i.e.Hampi),https://youtu.be/2IRR9Mpigck
Ummm. The word “Ghurids” is the name of a sovereignty and the word “Afghans” is too specific in my opinion. I consider the East Iranic people are more suitable to be classified as a Central Asian civ so I would like to support introducing them outside of the Indian DLC. Perhaps better introduce them and name them “Sogdians” or “Scythians” in a steppe DLC.
Of course, that Sogdians could act the role of the Afghans and the Ghurid Empire in the campaign after they independent from the Persians, the West Iranic people. Anyway leave the Bengalis and Dravidians being the contents of the Indian DLC alone.
