Whitout projectle travel distance and speed that leads to accuracy, this game cannot be a truly competitive one

This has been said about 10,000 times by now lol but yea I agree it’s not only more realistic but also more fun and interesting to have to consider projectile speed and direction.

How? It’s a randomised calculation that’s completely out of your hands.

You’d have better luck estimating the damage your units will take when sending them into range of enemy ranged units. Instead of relying on getting lucky, or the like. Luck feels good, but only when it works. It feels terrible when it doesn’t work, and in that case it’s rare for a player to blame their own risk-taking. It’s normally “wow this game just messed with me”.

A bit of a generalisation, but one that is probably super easy to Google. Players don’t like losing. Losses based on RNG make it feel like you’re not the one in control.

The problem is the lack of immersion from arrows teleporting to an out-of-range target can also affect players. So it’s not that either implementation (arrow chance to miss vs. no chance to miss) is wrong. They just have different advantages and disadvantages, and both are rooted pretty firmly in player psychology (with some differences in how they impact on balance and strategy).

EDIT


Oh wait, I thought you were talking about accuracy. I read it wrong haha. Leaving my dumb post up just for the record :sweat_smile:

How… what?

When you lose based on rng in aoe2 it’s more likely to be due to the random map generation giving you forward res or something like this than you missing a few projectiles.

Microing mangonels and archers not only feels dangerous and satisfying it also is a great sight to behold when pros can do it very well.

oh, ok :stuck_out_tongue: 20 characters

Yeah, to expand on this, as it’s completely separate to what I was going on about by mistake: I think you’re underselling the impact of this additional micro.

It’s micro for the sake of micro, just to get a unit to perform properly. If you have to repeatedly position your ranged units to ensure they hit, as well as calculate lead time . . . it can be very satisfying! But that’s a lot of micro just to make sure your ranged units do the job you built them to do (without considering ranged unit counters or other factors).

And while pros can absolutely make it look great, missing projectiles can absolutely matter at that level of gameplay. Which is why, in general, you’ll often see pro-level players being less happy with RNG in games than other kinds of player.

Again, it’s not something that’s purely better than the current implementation. Both have upsides and downsides.

Archers don’t always miss, there are some upgrades in aoe2 that improve their aim. I think there’s 2 but I haven’t played in a while… one of them is called ballistics and it gives them very good prediction of where the enemy will walk. Getting these upgrades makes you feel like you’re improving the training of your units.

If you lose because you missed with your archers, then you probably weren’t paying enough attention to them. Which is too bad, because they cost a lot of resources.

This extra micro is not necessary to win vs below-average opponents mind you. Archers can still fight without micro. It’s just that most players will try to capitalize on the incentive you get from trying to micro well. Then, the person needs to decide how much time microing is too much, perhaps at the expense of their macro!

Autofire (aoe4) vs 10 different mechanics in aoe2. *
What is more interesting?

* it’s literally 10, aim works different for archers/castles-towers/TCs. Chu-co-nu or Cuman UU, or Burmese - arrows work differently for different units.

And that’s AoE II. IV is similar in a bunch of ways, but still a different game.

And honestly upgrades shouldn’t factor into a unit’s base performance. Upgrades so useful they get picked every time aren’t a choice, they’re a necessity. Like the English Landmark choice to get to Feudal. It’s never the Abbey, and that’s a problem.

But yeah, you sum up the problem in excessive micro required for a single unit. There’s a ceiling on micro, for all players. Too much in one place, and you can’t use it in others. It reduces the scope for complex micro, which limits design.

This isn’t a problem for AoE II. It’s an old game - a classic. And I mean that in a good way! But there’s so much more that can be done with unit design now that we don’t need to rely on micro for the sake of micro just so that ranged units are worth the cost.

And if one of Age IV’s problems is that there isn’t enough micro (i don’t think it is, but let’s say it is), that can be improved by deepening the game elsewhere.

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Actually, it does not limit the complexity of micro but enriches it. The current AOE4 projectile design limited players in terms of reaction. As I mentioned, ranged units have 100% accuracy and also work like a hoaming missile. Players will always receive damage and there is just no way to not receive damage from ranged units. Do you really think this is a design that does not limit player reaction? Hell no! It limits competitive play. Let’s say we are playing soccer (football), and you are the goalkeeper, but when I take the shot, I will never miss it. How will you feel about it? Do you really think it is a competitive element? The answer is simply no.

And by the way, AOE2 projectiles were not random at all, it was fixed.
The only way to experience it is to try AOE2.

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The lag of your strategy getting foot archers countering it.

AOE2 missing arrow will be like Animation Cancel here. Only Pro rules the game, and everyone will be forced to do so or you sucks.

Seriously can’t you AOE2 fanboys just go back to your troll cave? It is 2022 now, not 1998.

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loool, in 1998 games have less chance of getting physics, is coding not meant to get better, instead it is going backwards, ill say what i said before, people like you cause the standard of games to go down instead of improve.

it is you who needs to stay in your troll cave xD.

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Is coding mean to be better?

Did you count how much more complicated a modern game comparing to those pre-2000 games?

You are talking like, wow the United State can bump out few thousands fighter plane per year in World War 2, our technology being much better in 21th century, why can’t they bump out 10 thousands F22 in one year?

Such Ignorance.

You should not compare Animation Cancel with fixed accuracy projectile of AOE1&2. Current archers already are OP as they don’t miss any shot, it is more of a hit scan effect. Tower rushers are also OP because it gives total control and villagers cannot cross it like in AOE2. In fact, you don’t even have to micro, if you let your units move 45degree where enemy archers are at 0 degrees. All the shots will be missed with such a degree unless you get closer. AOE2 projectile accuracy gets better when units get closer, but when they go further away, enemies can respond much more effectively to dodge. Casual players can completely ignore and play just normal and it won’t affect them. In fact, it will save their scouts from TC when they lose sight or forget about it, etc. It is just you think it is something like animation cancel, but no. It actually makes players calculate and make more cautious decisions. You just don’t know how satisfying it is and never experienced a good quality game with a competitive edge.

Currently, Pros rule the game!
When did casuals rule any game with a higher rank?
Hmmm xD
No worries, it will not affect your AI matches, but it will give you more chance to actually beat it effectively.

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Do you think current AOE4 projectiles are better than AOE2?
If so you must check it!

Oh so you mean with technological advancement we haven’t improved our knowledge?
If so maybe…

It enriches it for those specific units. I recommend re-reading what I wrote again, without analogies to football that make no sense in an RTS discussion. Unless you have twenty goalposts, twenty strikers, and twenty balls, and the goalposts can also walk.

■■■■■■■■, that Animation Cancel crap almost ruined the tournament. The majority of the Pros agreed they should focus more on strategy, saving low HP units and better units combination, but not these silly click dancing.

If you want pointing out something in terms of the Pros in tournament level, get yourself into it.

This arrow crap dancing is just some Unnecessary APM drain.

And again, just go play AOE2, go back to that side of you are so unhappy with it. We don’t need you pointing that AOE4 having no COLOUR selection in every single week.

You can also micro your melee units or any other units to move it with little micro and without taking much damage at the same time. AOE2 mounted units were the hardest units to hit with arrows as they are faster and go out of range pretty fast. It does not just give micro to archers, but it also gives all units to actually react.
In AOE4, players cannot react which leads to a design that limits gameplay.

sounds to me like you already struggle with micro, if this is the case maybe RTS games are not for you lol.
also it is not only the arrow accuracy people are not happy with, one example would be in DOW1 you could literally design the paint for your armies down to the gun, so why with this 2021 game are we not even allowed to pick player colour, it just has no innovation, i know one game that made alternative for siege and ranged units, in the game i mentioned you need supply wagons to keep siege and ranged units constantly topped up with missiles, otherwise they would run out and slowly get ammo back over time. they had logistics where carts would pick up resources from lumber camps and windmills and take it back to your manor, making raids more efficient. that game also had realistic physics where even a bullet would on the rare occasion miss its target if it was cavalry and quite far away, people like you just wanna play a child’s game, its legit not cool or realistic if missiles don’t miss, do me a favour and just go slap yourself, its the least you deserve.

StarCraft is the most competitive esports without accuracy. adding rng makes the game worse.