???
Iâm not offended easly, but on forum where I see often situations where people pointing [ always ] Polish nationality in negative way Itâs really annoying.
Iâm from Poland and I see no problem with Hussar having wings.
their ? So CloudAct is Polish ambassador speaking for everyone ? No hard feelings, but itâs infantile.
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Whats wrong about the throwing axeman, except for the enlarged axe so you can actually see what they throw?
To be honest, I experienced quite a lot of toxicity from Eastern European people here in those forums. Thing is that Eastern European people apparently donât like it being associated with Russia and to some extent theyâre right that the Slavs civs we have right now does a bad job at representing the Western parts of the Slavs, but that doesnât mean that the game needs tons and tons of Slavic civs. When other Forum users like me point that out there are quite some passionate discussions going on. The game has never been centered about representing every small group of people in a region instead of trying to cover different cultures and regions but apparently the game is going in a different direction now which I personally find not that great.
Iâm sorry but sometimes the responses some of those Slavs civ fan give are definitely innappropriate.
I just hope once DotD releases that the toxicity will cease a bit but I honestly doubt that. Another non-European DLC would probably appease a lot the situation here.
Anyway, weâre going off-topic. I honestly think though that all the points in this discussion have been mentioned so I donât know if it makes sense to keep discussing it.
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To the three ever complaing âŠgentelmen⊠whom found a time consuming hobby in starting verbal jousts online each day, Please, we know you donât want any change , that has been noted. Thank you for your participation but please stop making all of your numerous complaints personal and targeted.
My desires for diverse skins/sprites in this game is not limited to the Polish. The fact that every civ by default still uses 14th century European armours and weapons vexes to the utmost.
I would love to see changes all across the board, correct unit skins for the African, Messo, ME and Asian civs even if its just regional.
But in fact, instead of asking all of this from the devs (all this that we would pay for were it included in game) that I know will be to much to ask for at once, I went and just like Jugernaut, created a mod that gives every civ their own uniqe unit skins. It takes a lot of work and time but it is worth it, eventhough I donât get paid to do any of this (and the devs do, the devs can alter anything they want because they will make money from it) I still do it for it makes the game 100% more enjoyable
With every update (wich is getting more frequent ,thank the Lord) I have to adjudt and alter my mod unit data for it to work once more and that takes time. Ideally I would not want to have to work on my mod and instead have each and every civ (NOT JUST POLAND) have uneque and accurate unit skins.
I currently use my mod to have this but since the devs are making more and more HISTORICALLY ACCURATE unit skins themselves , out of their own accord , I though why not request that they add HA unit skins to each civ, WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE so why not start with the hussars of every other civ?
To the inscessant people screaming that ââTHIS GAME IS NOT HISTORICAL!!!ââ Ofcource its not, it wasnât desighned form day one to be 100% historical , but yet from day one the devs wanted the game to be baced on history, hense why the only the vikings have longboats, thatâs why the British doesnt have cammels , that is why the messo civs donât have cavalry, that is why there are regional differances in building arcutecture.
The devs clearly try to be cultural/historically accurate to an extent and we are just providing SUGGESTIONS on where they can further this endevour.
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I am no hussar expert, but if the current hussar is wrong, why not to change it just because it is a meta unit? Byzatines got also a change - architecture style. I mean I wouldnt style meta AoE2 into a relic 
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this is a lie. I am not anti change - what I want is to ensure that age of empires 2 remains age of empires 2. this is supposed to be a remaster of age 2 - as such, trying to change a working formula goes against the very nature of that. which is why I donât like things like Burgundians and Sicilians Unique techs - they reek of age of empires 3 style choices, and donât fit well with age 2 - and they have had a lot of backlash from the playerbase.
great - ask for these changes in the form of a non data mod that doesnât impact everyone else - in my eyes part of what has made age 2 so great is that the game was easy to read - a knight looks like a knight, no matter what civilization you play as. a crossbow is a crossbow, no matter what civ you play as. this makes it much easier to know what is going on in the heat of a battle then in some other games where each civ has its own different units (like say in SC2 or Command and Conquer).
because you are asking for a change that caters to Poland, who are arguably already being heavily catered already. more then we have seen any new civ catered too. why not start with a civ that has been around for ages and hasnât had much love?
based on or influenced by history is hugely different then historically accurate - and its much easier to have regional differences in buildings because a barracks, no matter the region, still looks like a barracks.
a regional knight could look drastically different and cause confusion - imagine you think something is a knight and think you got a good matchup with your boyars - but turns out that unit was in fact a leitis.
this is why any such skins should be (as you use) mods. and those mods should be non data mods so they could be used in multiplayer.
a very small extent - civs arenât even portrayed accurately for the love of god.
Chinese without gunpowder.
Goths as an infantry civilization.
Celts with good siege but no BBC.
Mayans as an Archer civilization.
Spanish without Crossbow.
and that is just a small list.
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because there are hordes of things that are historically inaccurate, not just hussars (as examples, and these are just unit designs of individual units FYI, cavalry using swords instead of lances, Frankish Throwing Axeman throwing double headed axes, Mamelukes throwing scimitars and riding camels) this doesnât include other inaccurate things that touch upon balance and design like (Meso civs with steel/crossbows/arbs/siege, Goths as an Infantry Civ, Mayans as an Archer civ, Chinese without Gunpowder, Indians in general, etc) . and to open up the historical accuracy can of worms would require hordes of work for the devs, and would fundamentally change what makes age of empires 2 the game it is. A game that is easy to get into, easy to read, and historically influenced, but lacking accuracy and authenticity.
This isnât just asking for one small change - you change this and you open up a world of work in changing anything that isnât accurate.
but here is the thing - buildings always follow the same design - a barracks looks like a barracks, even if it is adjusted slightly from region to region. and this change only impacted one civilization. Byzantines.
the people in this forum are asking for a change that affects ALL CIVS just to cater to one civilization.
are we going to start changing cavaliers and paladins for every civilization because historically only the French had them? I donât see French AoE2 players asking us to do that, despite clearly the Paladin being something that was unique to the French. should we change non French Paladins?
the game uses the same design for units because it makes the game easier to read and understand what is going on. a knight looks like a knight. no matter what. now imagine how much harder it would be to read a game if we had 6-7 different versions of each unit to have regional unit skins.
The devs have already done work to differentiate the Polish Hussar from the non Polish Hussar, so why would they go through all that work to make them different from other winged hussars, just to turn around and remove the wings from non Polish Hussar? They already have a unique Hussar model as is. they already have a way to stand out as is. Why shold the devs invalidate all their work?
i agree with juggernauts idea of making it an event graphics mod - those who want to use it - can. it doesnât impact anyone else.
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I am trying to be openminded so I am well aware we need to draw line between historical accuracy and fun⊠somewhereâŠ
Here we are in the topic dedicated to âwinged hussarsâ. What I have read the solution could be just in removing wings. Thats all. Does it change the style of the unit? No, at first glance everybody sees this rider is much lighter than his neighbour in stablesâŠ
You are right, but at same time I see no posts about redesigning those things.
This topic is literally about one small changeâŠ
Removing wings does not change the general appearance of the unit⊠it will be always light cavalry unit at spot⊠The opposite could be true: many years ago when hussars were introduced I supposed it was a new heavy cav unit! Because all those shiny thingsâŠ
Thats right! I absolutely agree with you. I am annoyed by reading spam of neverending change proposals. But in this topic we discuss hussars which does not affect balance, playabilityâŠ
I dont know if you are aware but cavaliers and paladins more or less represent European cavalry in very good way. They are not only French. Basically all countries influenced by chivalric culture had those units in tournaments and battles. That means English, Italiens, Poles, Bohemians etc should have them as well if we want to be 100% accurate.
Plus if we say paladins represent any kind of truly heavy cavalry, like cataphracts, then I am OK with Persians and Byzantines 
Cumans and Huns are weird, this I havent gotâŠ
I agree with you that readibility is a key! But is the change really big?
To be honest, what I have read here, devs got themselves into this trouble by adding anything like âwingedâ into medieval game. No wonder some fans want the change. Anyway, I dont see it needs much work to proceedâŠ
Could be⊠But by this statement you partially invalidates your previous arguments. Its OK devs spend time on a mod but its not OK if devs spend the same time on changing the unit.
If devs remove the wings, thats good for me. If they let it be, I can live with it. After so many years I get used to using them although at the beginning I didnt know what all those silver things meant 
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but compare hussar to light cav - how much different are they? some armor on the front of the horse and a plume on the helm, if youâre zoomed in enough to see them. furthermore again - the devs have already done work to make the polish have a unique hussar skin - why do all that work to then just remove regular hussar wings?
they pop up from time to time - but the point is - for the most part - people are content and realize that units exist that way for a reason - readability. its why even asian and african civs have european knights.
and you think that if this change gets pushed through that others wonât come and ask for their specific special change? we literally had people asking for Indian Battle Elephants the moment they were added to the game. we literally had them asking again the moment Mongols got Steppe Lancers.
a light cavalry unit with wings to differentiate it from the Light cav itself.
much like you can tell the difference between a knight and a cavalier because a cavalier has the horse covered.
but then if were making changes to other civs to cater to one, then we need to change cavalier and paladins because franks.
we need to change mamelukes to be historically accurate
we need to change throwing axeman to be historically accurate.
we need to change meso civs archer and infantry lines to be historically accurate.
then since weâve given the meso civs unique unit skins, complete with new unit names, other civs are going to want the same treatment. all because we started with 1 small change to make Poland fans happy (after already heavily catering to them as is, none the less).
but Paladin was a very FRENCH rank
The Paladins (or Twelve Peers ) are twelve fictional knights of legend, the foremost members of Charlemagneâs court in the 8th century.
yes. the difference between a light cavalry and a hussar isnât that much if you take the wings off. furthermore, again - why invalidate all the work the devs put into making a UNIQUE SKIN FOR POLES, just to turn around and remove them from other civs?
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We need to? Why, just because of your mood?
I donât see anyone asking requesting a change of Paladins or Cavaliers because aside of their names and maybe small emblem on the Paladin, these units are of a much more generic design than the clearly shouting âI am Polishâ winged Hussars.
Your approach is very wrong. You should rather compare this to if they were to add another Frankish civ with a new French Paladin unit of nearly identical appearance to the Paladins in game.
Then perhaps people would be asking for a comparable adjustment of the current Paladins for a better differentiation, yes.
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Yes, they certainly come And the more attentetion they get the higher probability is they succeed.
But hussar is more armoured than light cavalry.
No we neednt. Its all about forum attention and gaining popular support. As long there are no big posts about mamelukes, goths etc, nobody will care.
Ahaaa! But you wrote about cavalier and paladins so I thought you wrote about heavy cavalry in general. Yes, âpaladinsâ are French. However, at the times of Charlemagne knigths were not so armoured as ingame paladins are and thus, I take paladins as the representation of highend heavy cavalry
Again, thats not the right question. Devs put winged Hussars into the game. Now, the other devs are adding Poles. Clearly its not OK I dont wonder fans are asking for a change.
Maybe the answer for you is: because the fanbase will crucify devs for not adding brand new units! 
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Exactly, itâs a terrible comparison because in the case of these Heavy Cavalry units all they really copied from the Franks were their names. Or maybe that small emblem on the Paladin which you hardly pay attention to anyway.
I was told to let it be and that us Polish fans should be grateful with what we will get and we surely are - however civs like the Bohemians wonât have any less unique elements and how is this even an argument?
When this is more about all civs than the Polish one, to make all those using Hussars not look like Polish armies.
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because if removing wings from non polish hussar is done because that was THEIR SPECIAL THING then taking away paladins from other civs has to be done because that was FRANKS SPECIAL THING.
or maybe because other people understand that gameplay and readability trump historical accuracy any day of the week.
no. the poles want wings removed from other civs because they want to be special and unique because that was there thing.
well PALADINS WERE A FRANK THING. SO BY POLISH LOGIC, Paladins should be removed from NON FRANK CIVS.
or we can leave the game as is, with good accessibility and readability to all.
trying to be unique and different is what they tried in age 3 and it wasnât that good of a game.
and can you honestly see that little bit of armor difference at a glance of your screen when your zoomed out? nope. but you sure notice those wings.
oh please - when they added steppe lancers to mongols this forum was FLOODED with requests from Indians wanting battle elephants. you think they make this change in the name of historical accuracy the same wonât happen? hate to say it to you, but weâve already seen youâre wrong on this.
doesnât matter. Paladins are a very french thing. therefore by the logic of Poles here, we should change every other paladin in the game.
BECAUSE IT MAKES IT VERY EASY TO READ COMPARED TO A LIGHT CAVALRY.
then clearly we need to change everything that âisnât okayâ. by the very logic you and Poles are showing.
except the devs already went out of their way to make Poland special as is. how much more special treatment should one civ get?
they got a unique castle.
a unique mill.
and two unique units.
how much more favoritism should the devs show them then they already have?
and why should just the poles be shown such favoritism? why not civ x? or civ y?
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Again, to me this just sounds like an infantâs nagging. Completely ignoring the reasonability of this suggestion with now 3 similar Hussar units in game.
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coming from the group that wants a 5th unique thing on top of having more then any new already has?
coming from the group that wants to change every other civ just to cater to them?
WHICH GROUP IS THE INFANT NAGGING? the one wanting EVEN MORE SPECIAL TREATMENT (IE poland in this case) or the one who wants things to stay as they are? (Ie people like me).
each with completely different wings.
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Wrong, they get the Wagon and Houfnice. Arguably more uniqueness than the Poles as these possibly get yet another Hussar unit for more âuniquenessâ.
Then again this thread isnât a competition about the amount of unique elements a civ may or may not have but broaches the issue of now 3 very similar Hussar units in game and the winged Hussars making all other armies using them appear as Polish, despite the Poles being in game as a separate civ now.
I have yet to see a valid counter-argument on this thread that isnât based on crying about the âbetter treatmentâ of the Polish civ compared to others which isnât even true.
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okay. true. they get two unique units. they still only have 3 unique things. compared to Polands 4, including a completely unique mill.
but we have how many civs that use paladin despite paladin being a very frankish thing?
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This is the best reply for that:
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You know, if they add the Swiss one day, which i hope they wonât for a while at least, I could also come with how they have to remove Halberdiers from every civ and replace it with a Heavy Pikeman unit.
Iâm not a fan of this logic at all, thatâs all.
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