But it disproves your point that all the SC2 players like the zoom level.
Your argument is now just to copy Blizzard because they are Blizzard so they must be right.
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I think by now it should be obvious that this Mer-MantheTunaFish is not worth being talked toâŠ
Heâs constantly discrediting everyoneâs points and has lost touch with reality, like the pollâŠ
This is how League of Legends would have been looked if @_e_o_ka had been designing it. Just imagine.
My point is that Warcraft III, Starcraft 1, and Starcraft 2, the most successful RTS games of all time had zoomed in cameras. LoL and DOTA 2 are the same way. I wonder why. I realize that some players wish they could zoom out more while playing these games, since it makes it easier to see whatâs going on, therefore giving you an advantage. The developers donât let you because it would negatively affect the gameplay and visuals. Itâs whats in the best interest of the game and entire playerbase ultimately.
Would be fucking amazing!
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Seems like the main concern is streaming/casting games. You need to find a better caster, thats all. Good casters are able to use the mouse wheel button and zoom in when appropriate, and zoom out when appropriate. Actually an entire mod was made for AOE2, mostly to allow casters to zoom out more (Agecapture I think it was called). Casters and players both want to be able to CHOOSE the zoom level best for the situation and viewers.
Merman still has never addressed the fact that AOE2 and AOE3 pros never zoom out all of the way when they play. He just keeps claiming that zooming out gives a competitive advantage despite that directly contradicting the behavior of ALL pro players. Find me one, just one, example of Viper zooming all the way out during one of his streams.
Forcing your zoom preference levels on other people on the basis of YOUR preference is best for THEM is just plain wrong. Just imagine how you would feel if you were forced to play at maximum zoom levels at all times.
There is one fundamental thing that all those games have in common:
They do not have random maps.
Dota and LoL even only have 1 map (they tried other ones but people only ever liked playing on the main map).
Wacrcraft 3 and Starcraft 2 both have a fixed number of locations where you can collect resources (Gold, Minerals/Gas) and there are usually only a small hand full of paths leading to the enemy bade.
You do not need to scout the map, you only scout what the enemy does.
You always know where everything is on every map. You know exactly where the enemy can attack from and those paths are usually very narrow.
SC2 is about controlling choke points.
SC2 and even more so WC3 is a lot more about micro then about the economy. Unity are very responsive and controlling them well is very important. Many units have active abilities that have to be used precise and quickly.
Dota and LoL are 100% about microing 1 unit. They are essentially completely different games that just share controls. Also both games originate from WC3 so all those games have a lot of things in common naturally. Stormgate is made by former Blizzard devs so you can count that into the list of WC3 like games.
Skyrim is nothing like Call of Duty just because both games are 1st person. So AoE shouldnât be like Dota just because it uses the same camera perspective.
Age of Empires and Age of Mythology are a lot more about building a city and developing an economy then all of those Blizzard games.
AoE and AoM have 4 resources (XP in AoE3 and Favour in AoM instead of Stone) while WC3 and SC2 just have 2.
Also AoE and AoM have random maps.
You need to scout and learn a new map in every match.
Most maps are very open, the enemy can attack from every angle. The most popular AoE2 map is Arabia, one of the most open maps in the game.
AoE and AoM naturally play very different then SC2 and WC3 so because something works in those games doesnât mean it has to be good for AoE too.
Just because those games are successful doesnât mean AoE has to become more like those games.
Why try to directly compete with the most successful games if you can instead go for a different less contested part of the market.
AoE and AoM will never be able to compete head on with Dota and LoL so itâs better not to try.
You mean Capture Age? Itâs a 3rd party software that runs separately from AoE2DE.
It renders everything itself and allows you to zoom out until you see the entire map.
The AoE2DE developers added a button to the game that allows you to observer games or watch replays in Capture Age instead of ingame.
The fact that this is a 3rd party software removes all the arguments about limiting the zoom level in AoE2DE for better streaming experience because professional casters donât even use AoE2DE itself to cast tournaments.
Reduce and cap the zoom level. Donât let the AoE 2 boomers have their way with their 25 year old looking game. Most people donât want to watch or be forced to play a zoomed out RTS. This is the biggest mistake Retold could make! This utmost injustice to Retold would be allowing and encouraging a far zoomed out camera. The amazing graphics and visuals need to be on display for all to see!
lol as if youâre in the room with every RTS player listening to their thoughts.
Your arrogance is baffling.
Lol how did that not get censored but a certain Atlantean god does?! 
sixfingeralien / @Mer-MantheTunaFish 's problem with the zoom level isnât even about the zoom tool itself but rather the streamers who streamed the game.
He should be asking and directing his concerns to them.
This is how the most popular RTS games are played. Itâs how MOBAs are played as well. Imagine showing a zoomed out RTS to these players! It would be nail in the coffin instantly. The original AoM and EE never allowed such a zoom in level.
Again my friend, have a reality check.
The results of the poll in the entry post are public.
Carefully read the options and check the results.
Nobody is forced to play zoomed out either, you can zoom in very closely.
If you donât like zoomed out streams, watched zoomed in ones.
Your poll doesnât mean anything and you know that. There will be hundreds of thousands if not million of people taking a look at Retold. The most popular RTS games and MOBAs have a zoomed in camera. These people donât want to watch ant fights.
Iâm not familiar with AoE3:DEâs zoom option, but I think devs should just make a horizontal bar in settings where you can pin a marker at your preferred âmaxâ zoom level; so your mousewheel zooms never exceed that threshold.
Someone could peg their max zoom to, like, 60% if they donât like the cam going out farther and donât want it accidentally going out farther⊠and others, like me, can peg max zoom to 100% (which would be AoM:Râs current max zoom)
Didnât AoE2:DE fix that issue, where someoneâs slow machine no longer lags others in MP matches? I remember that was one of the updates touted for AoE2:DE, anyways. Iâm not sure if it works in reality since I only play SP matches or with friends vs. AI. Hopefully AoM:R would have the same fix.
Speaking of SP and vs. AI games, I donât believe in making SP or unranked game quality suffer due to worries about MP ranked suffering. Take the training wheels off and let players figure it out themselves, especially for SP or unranked games â and even for ranked games, to an extent.
If you prevent the game from shining now due to worries about performance hits, just remember it is the year 2024 only once. Imagine 3 or 5 years from now when many have upgraded their PCs and Internet speeds (since tech is always improving), and their game experience is still capped at 2024 levels. Then imagine 10 years later, and so on.
That has already happened with AoE4. Letâs be honest, AoE4 looked a little behind-the-times when it launched a few years ago, and nothing noteworthy has been done to enhance it since. Still has the tunnel-vision zoom, low population cap, muddy textures, repeating textures, small maps, stationary chickens in the TC, and other âissuesâ more reminiscent of 2015 or earlier. Since the game wasnât designed with any options to let us enhance the experience beyond 2015-2020 levels, weâre stuck in that era until who knows when. Will a new coat of paint finally be put on in the 10th Anniversary? 25th Anniversary âDEâ version, or?
Let everyone pick their own experience. Thatâs why games have Video/Graphics options. Do I play other games with graphics maxed out? Nope, because it makes my game chunky. So, what do I do? I go into the options and move graphics settings lower until I get the performance I like⊠just like everyone else. (And now there are even AI-enhanced options for some vid cards to increase graphical fidelity while being less computationally taxing.) And then if itâs a game I really like, I look forward to the day when I am able to upgrade my PC to max out the graphics and re-live the game in a whole new light.
Every graphics option can, arguably, âaffect the quality of games.â Want to play at 1080p instead of 800x600? That could slow your game down. 4K instead of 1080p? Could slow your game down. High dynamic FX instead of low? Could impact. Bigger map instead of smaller? Could impact. Shadows on instead of no shadows? Could impact. Texture resolution higher than low? Could impact.
Why should zoom be some weird outlier that doesnât let players choose what they want, especially for SP and unranked games, but also for even ranked games, imo
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People usually play and cast the game at zoom levels which are unappealing to players from other RTS games. This is because other RTS games have a more zoomed in camera. That is what these players are used to. It is a make or break issue with many if not most of these players. If the camera zoom level in your RTS is going to alienate the majority of potential players then that is a huge concern. Iâm not saying itâs a dealbreaker for everyone who plays other RTS games or MOBAs, but it definitely matters to a ton of them. The zoom level in the original AoM and EE were nothing like Retold. The current zoom level just does way more harm than good to the playerbase as a whole.
This saddens me, because RTS deserves a resurgence. Millions of players have been deprived and missed out on the opportunity to discover how fun this genre is. I donât find RTS games less enjoyable if you canât zoom in as close as in Starcraft II, but gamers nowadays want to be up close to the action. Itâs just how things have evolved. Some people underestimate how fickle many gamers are nowadays, especially people unfamiliar with RTS. They will potentially view the game as ant simulator and just close the window.
About a week ago I was curious about this RTS called Northgard. I chose to watch a video of two supposedly high level players fighting, in order to get a richer understanding of what the game was about. The video started and the player was zoomed far out microing their workers. I just wanted to see the graphics up close and see how similar it was to Age of Empires. I didnât last long watching the video and went to do something else. I literally still donât know what Northgard is exactly other than itâs a Norse based RTS. Iâm somebody who is well versed in the RTS genre, and Iâve heard good things about that game, but Iâve still not been compelled to watch more of it due to that impression I had.
Just imagine how many of thousands or potentially millions of people that have not bothered trying the Age of Empires franchise or other RTS franchises for this reason. People who know about RTS games know primarily of Starcraft and Warcraft. They expect zoomed in gameplay where the combat and units are easily visible. The first thing that so many people will say is âWhy is the game so zoomed out?â Sometimes there isnât somebody there to respond to that question, and even if there is, theyâve already formed a negative first impression. Is Age of Mythology a sim city builder or an RTS PvP game?
No need to be sad.
The majority of people doesnât spend their life on Twitch like you do.
They do not get their first impression of a game though bad Twitch streamers.
They do not make their purchasing decisions based on Twitch.
I can promise you that the current zoom level will not negatively impact the sales of the game at all!
A lot of people started playing League of Legends before Twitch even existed! I remember back in 2010 everyone and their mum was playing it.
You have to realise that your experience of RTS is not the same as the majorities experience.
Your main goal is to make AoMR look good on twitch and everything else doesnât matter for you. Do you just want to watch the game or do you actually want to play it?
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The currently zoom level will very likely negatively affect game sales. Thereâs a reason why the official screenshots on the Retold website and steam mage are so zoomed in. Most gamers donât want to play or look at zoomed out PvP games.
This is a lie. I donât believe that you can still honestly have to opinion that âmost peopleâ like not being able to choose their Zoom level.
No one wantâs to remove the ability to zoom in.
You want to remove the ability to zoom out.
People have made it clear many many many times that it does not give you a competitive advantage to zoom out.
You do NOT have to zoom out to play ranked. There is not advantage in zooming out.
There is absolutely no disadvantage for anyone at all that there is ability to zoom out.
Look at how tiny your stream screenshot is on my monitor.
Now imagine the same zoom level but itâs on the full monitor.
Just because you watch blurry streams on a low resolution doesnât mean that your experience is representative for other people.
It looking bad is your subjective experience based on your monitor and how your eyes perceive the game.
And many people here and in other places have told you that they donât see the game in the same way.
You are just laying if you keep pretending your opinion reflects the majority.
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