These are all good changes, but I was expecting a bit more after almost two months of continuous feedback. Italians and turks are still in a bad spot. Condo buff is nice though.
They did got a huge buff on DEās release that made them actually usable in Castle, so you could say most of the job has been done for them.
For Italian thatās easy to understand: they are good at what they are supposed to be good, and if you use them outside of that at least they are generic and donāt lack too much options. Regarding Turks, it depnds on oneās stance on how they play on Arena I guess.
Here is the official thread about the balance changes!
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Viking are as good (or almost) as italians on water, but way, way better on land.
By this I meant that Italian being the bottom Arabia civ (IF itās indeed the case) is more OK than Portuguese being at the bottom since Italian are at the top where they are supposed to be be. Vikings donāt have much to do with that.
I mean, Italians are too bad in arabia and none picks them outside water maps. Even in hybrid maps they are not picked. Similar for turks outside of Arena.
It does not make sense to have an almost auto loose on Arabia just because Italians are good on pure water. They do need some early love boost, like a free tech or similarā¦ as the other civs get buffed, they became weaker and weaker since they loose competitors
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Itās not only the food savings, itās also that you can actually get those techs faster.
I mean accesible cathaphracts + cheap guerrilla OR + cheap halbs 
(depending on your enemys civ)
(also cheap imperial)
Letās see how it goes next days but in my opinion bizantines are crazy now. Any way I still think making cathaphracts more accessible is very good for the game variety and more fun.
lucky portos got a buff and I hope everyone is fine with that 
Just reduce GC training time like 1 or 2 seconds and italians are fine
Even more than 2 secondsā¦ overall I would give them some free tech or military bonus helping from feudalā¦
Maybe once addressed the water balance they will be given an eco buff
Iād agree with 3 seconds. Furthermore I would give them some small buff elsewhere.
Btw just tested pathfinding and if feels way, way better. I think there will be a big meta shift.
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GC are actually really strong vs cav. It may broke the game if they are too spammeable.
Iāve recently just done some italian matches on land with gc to make sure I give the best feedback possible since there was an italian balance discussion thread recently and while I found GC pretty strong their training time makes them useless. In more than one match my oponnet managed to overwhealm my units with knights and my GCs were worth nothing because of their low numbers. Iām not saying they need a huge buff like the same as chu ko nu training time but 3 seconds is needed (I think 4 seconds would be make them borderline too strong).
guys i just want to point this outā¦
so at the end of the mongol event you get a genghis khan cheat code.
Unlocks the āYes We Khanā cheat code. This cheat is exclusive to the Genghis Khan campaign, and replaces all your Mangudai with the āGenghis Khanā unit.
it literally turns mangudai into genghis khanā¦thats scary
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oh and it does appear they made pathfinding improvements.
- Improved the behavior of melee units as they surround and clash with tightly-packed armiesāsuch as when cavalry units surround and try to attack a death-ball of archers.
how big an improvement will it be? did they legitimately 100% fix it, or is it just the start?
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It will be noticeable on water for sure.
There are few land units, besides siege and war wagons, that cost lots of wood. Cavalry archer costs 40, skirms 35, and archers and spears 25
But ships cost lots more
we were talking land though, you know, arabia
Iāve tested it and it seems pretty huge
I could predict a bigger meta shift
thats good to hear.
though now i wonder what thatās going to do to balance.
Teutons, Franks, and Goths are already very strong civs as is.
that is what concerns me. we already have several top tier melee civs as is, how much will this boost them?
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