Civilization Idea: Venetians

[UlissePigro]

After the introduction of the Burgundians and the Sicilians, it makes sense to introduce one of the civilizations that, during the Middle Ages until the modern age, dominated the Mediterranean, that is not represented at all by Italians except for Silk Road, maybe. I refer to the Republic of Venice, the civilization then will be called the Venetians. I know that it is difficult to try to create a new civilization while managing to make it balanced. Below is the idea, I hope it will interest you.

Venetians

Naval and gunpowder civilization

-bonus1: dock works 20% faster

-bonus2: gunpowder units and petards +1/+1 armor in castle +1/+2 in imp

-bonus3: fish last 50% longer

-bonus 4: eco tech researched instantly

-bonus 5: lumberjack don’t require Lumber Camp/Town Centers to drop off wood(-5% gather rate)

-Unique Unit: Sea Captains (Capitan da Mar): fast gunpowder units with low attack with respect to other gunpowder, but fast attack speed and more precision

Stats: Hp-30, Attack-12, Armor 0/0 (because already affected by bonus2), Range-6, Line of Sight-10, Speed-1.2, Build Time-16s, Frame Delay-15, Attack Delay-0.6s, Reload Time-2.2s, Precision 70%, Cost (30 f, 35g)

Elite Upgrade: Cost(1000 f, 600g)

Elite Stats: Hp-60, Attack-15, Armor +1/+1, Range-8, Line of Sight-12, Speed-1.2, Build Time-12s, Frame Delay-15, Attack Delay-0.6s, Reload Time-2.0s, Precision 90%, Cost (30 f, 35g)

Sea Captains have attack bonus against navy and cavalry(+6/+3).

-Unique Tech1: Sabotage: Petards and gunpowder units (except UU)+100% faster, enables arsenalot, a petard-kind units with +25% Hp and who deal +200% damage to buildings and unit with respect to petard, blast radius is 1 and costs 80f 45g. Cost (400 w, 200g). It will be a kind of Elite upgrade for petard.

-Unique Tech2: Arsenal: destroyed ships give back 40% of their price. Cost (1200 food, 600 g)

-Dock Unique Unit: Slim Galley: (availability in Castle Age) fast war ship that shoot projectiles with low but fast attack and bonus damage (+6/+3) against docks and fortification (Castles, Towers, Donjons, Kreposts, walls)-not affected by blacksmith upgrades

Stats: Hp-120, Attack-6, Armor +1/+4, Range-6, Line of Sight-9, Speed-1.6, Build Time-20s, Frame Delay-0, Attack Delay-0s, Reload Time-2.5s, Cost (60 w, 35g)

Elite Upgrade: Cost(900 f, 600g)-with elite upgrade they do trample damage (more in onager sense that in scorpion’s one)

Elite Stats: Hp-135, Attack-9, Armor +1/+1, Range-9, Line of Sight-12, Speed-1.6, Build Time-18s, Frame Delay-0, Attack Delay-0s, Reload Time-2.4s, Blast Radius 0.9, Cost (60 w, 35g)

-Team Bonus: Trade units (Cart and Cog) are 50% faster and have +30%hp.

Missing Techs and Units:

-Archery Range: Cavaly Archer, Heavy Cavalry Archer, Parthian Tactics

-Barracks: Supplies, Eagle Lines

-Stable: Husbandry, Paladins, Elephants, Camels, Steppe Lancers

-Siege Workshop: Siege Onager

-Blacksmith: Plate Barding Armor, Plate Mail Armor

-Castle: Sappers

-Monastery: Faith

-Mill: Crop Rotation

They have full University and Dock.

Historically, there were two choices for the unique naval unit: the slim galley, agile and excellent for quick maneuvers, or the galeazza, a large, tank galley with deadly cannon broadsides, referred to as a true castle of the sea. Both boats have long been used by the Venetian navy, and in the famous Battle of Lepanto (1571), were used both.

[TungstenBoar]

This civ has some serious problems. The UUs are too cheap and too good in general, the UTs are probably OP. The dock bonus overlaps too much with Persians and they have a crazy atrong eco (it may be fine, but I have serious doubts on it partculary on the lumberjack bonus who is borserline OP on itself)

[MatCauthon3]

I’m concerned about eco techs being instant. More so with respect to wheelbarrow and handcart

[DjBillE]

Could one of the modders make this to test it out?

[UlissePigro]

I realize now how cheap they are, you are right, maybe because it’s a overall strong unit they should cost something like 50f 50g. I maybe write wrong dock bonus , i mean navy only(military) creation is 20% faster (Persians is more like an eco bonus even if it is applied overall to dock). Also see that 100% faster for UT1 is way too much, maybe +50% or +30% it’s ok (but impossible too see without actually playing them). I think wood bonus with -5% starting gather rate wouldn’t be so OP, think we will have a civ with that bonus sooner or later. Thank you for your comment!

[DoctBaghi]

I already proposed a fan design for such civ time ago, and I can say that I already collected the feedback of several people, so if you want to check it out. There you can find several ideas, feedbakc, sources, opinions and info in general.

New Civ concept: the Venetians

So, since we will get new civs, my hope to see a venetian civilization has risen once again. This was an old civ concept of mine, that I designed years ago, but never shared since we had the Italians and because of the DE “no new civs policy”, but since we got the sicilians… I know that there are already many requests for new civs, especially for cultures that weren’t included even a bit, and by any means I mean that this civ should to take precedence. I just want to share my ideas and vision …

This is the last draf of the civ:

New Civ concept: the Venetians

Bonuses: Docks are built 100% faster, and work 10/20/30/40% faster Starts with +150 wood (so 350w in total) Archery range units move 5/10/15% faster in feudal/castle/imp Trade units have double the HP and they also generates food (at half the rate of gold) TB: Docks provides 5 pop UTs: Arsenal - Docks and siege workshops works 40% faster Fante de mar - Archer line and infantry UU (either the castle UU or the condo) get +1 attack So this is a built based only around a strong early fe…

There is still the debate about giving them a 5th bonus, of free infantry armor, I struggling to see the historical justification for that though. maybe you can help me there.

The tech tree is similar to yours, except for a FU barracks and a worse stable. Some other small differences too…

The UU is yet to be decided, the choice is between an infantry UU (fante de mar) or a cavarly one (stradiots), you can find the description there.

There is also a water UU, the Galeass.

Lastly, I even suggest a campaing for the civ eventually.

New Civ concept: the Venetians

Ok, the civ is complete, so basically I don’t have anything more to share, except for one thing. Some time ago with the civ I also thought of a campaign. I made 4 full scenarios, and I also made an old topic in the modding section of the forum asking for help into making it a mod. Unfortunately, I had to format my PC, and I lost all the scenarios and will to do them over again (maybe some day I will…). Still, I’ll share here the concept for the campaign, in the case the civ will se the light …

As for your design, this is my opinion:

@UlissePigro

-bonus1: dock works 20% faster

I did something like that too, but then I thought that it would be too similar to the persians bonus, and maybe too strong in dark age.

@UlissePigro

-bonus2: gunpowder units and petards +1/+1 armor in castle +1/+2 in imp

Pretty bad onestly, both are units that are rarely used, and leave the civ vulnerable before imp.

@UlissePigro

-bonus3: fish last 50% longer

Might work, but mayans have something similar, and don’t really work that well for them if I’m not mistaken…

@UlissePigro

-bonus 4: eco tech researched instantly

This might work, simple and not OP, but not useless neither.

@UlissePigro

-bonus 5: lumberjack don’t require Lumber Camp/Town Centers to drop off wood(-5% gather rate)

This is broken, even at a lowered rate. Kmer at least they are bounded to the place where they place the farm. But wood, wood is everywhere, you can simply chop wood anywhere and save soo much time from the trips. And also wood bonuses it doesn’t work well with water civs, beacuse they make them too strong.

@UlissePigro

-Unique Tech2: Arsenal: destroyed ships give back 40% of their price. Cost (1200 food, 600 g)

Mmm, not grat, the main purpose usually is to not lose too many units, and for that price it’s not worth it.

@UlissePigro

-Unique Tech1: Sabotage:

Again, not a fan of this, petard and gunpodwer are super situetionally units.

@UlissePigro

-Unique Unit: Sea Captains (Capitan da Mar):

This might work, but it need testing… not liking the name though…

@UlissePigro

-Dock Unique Unit: Slim Galley:

So baiscally a chep CG? Am I right?

Again, it might work, but need testing too…

@UlissePigro

Missing Techs and Units:

@UlissePigro

-Barracks: Supplies

This might be a problem against meso civs.

@UlissePigro

-Blacksmith: Plate Barding Armor, Plate Mail Armor

That won’t work, either one or the other need to be there.

The problem that I generally see with your design, is that you have made them really strongo on water, even broken, but they don’t have much on land. The gunpowder bonus will probably be ignored, and people would just play xbow because of the sick wood bonus (that will never make it into the game…).

[DoctBaghi]

@MatCauthon3

I’m concerned about eco techs being instant. More so with respect to wheelbarrow and handcart

It might work with no other eco bonus. I suggested something similar for goths some time ago, it’s good, but not broken in my opinion.

[Tropfzahn]

UU 15 attack and 2seconds reload? That’s more DPS than mangudai. Even with 70% accuracy that’s huge. Plus the price cheaper than Jannissaries which are the closest relatable unit. Plus quite high armor and hp and attack boni against cav. Sounds pretty problematic to me.

[UlissePigro]

Nice! Didn’t see that before. Well i try to structure this civ giving the strenght main to water and gunpowder. You are right when u say that they may struggle against meso, but they early access to gunpowder (u need a castle of course) can compensate that, because i make them strong (i have to correct price for sure, because they are too cheap), so on land they raly main on archers that are FU and later on gunpowder. Maybe Plate Mail Armor should be available, but first i’ll see how the civ works like that.
Overall should be a decent land civ and a strong water one.

Still think wood bonus not so OP with -5% gather rate (have to test it somehow), maybe an idea is that it starts when u research second wood upgrade or as a unique tech (i.e. UT2) , so it will be more balanced

UU land for sure Fante da Mar or Capitan da Mar.

UT2: u are right i don’t like it much, have to think to a possible change (the name should still remain Arsenal) like bonus 5 becomes instead thins unique tech.

I was very undecided whether the unique naval unit should be the galeass or the slim galley, maybe galeass should be a better choice, but the risk is that it will be too similar to a turtle ship (as unit stats). You did a very nice work and i will for sure look at that when i’ll have some time (i see u make a lot of thing).

Do u know a way to “mod” it for test?
Thank a lot for your comment.

Ah, an important thing i forgot, the stemma will be San Marco Lion.

[UlissePigro]

Sry, i mean not for sure Captain or Fante da Mar, but Stradiot is a good idea too. I was only thinking that we have less gunpowder UU in game and lot of cavalry, i was thinking gunpowder in order to have more variability.

[DoctBaghi]

@UlissePigro

Still think wood bonus not so OP with -5% gather rate (have to test it somehow), maybe an idea is that it starts when u research second wood upgrade or as a unique tech (i.e. UT2) , so it will be more balanced

But then you leave them with a really weak early game, that’s the problem.

Trust me, I too try to think a way to give them a wood bonus, and I resorted with +150 extra wood at the start because that way, even if it doesn’t last, it gives you the opportunity to take an advantage to snowball.

If you lock it behind castle age, quick civs (so basically about 80% of them…) will exploit that and punish you hard, because you are basically forced to fast castle. If it starts from the dark age, it becomes quite broken.

With farms is different, you need to do an investment anyway on the farm, but with natural resources, not needing to invest on a gathering point is really strong.

@UlissePigro

but they early access to gunpowder (u need a castle of course) can compensate that, because i make them strong

Yeah, but in general, gunpowder civs are weak civ… that’s why I buffed their archer and gunpowder (which is still historically correct).

@UlissePigro

I was very undecided whether the unique naval unit should be the galeass or the slim galley, maybe galeass should be a better choice, but the risk is that it will be too similar to a turtle ship (as unit stats).

Not necessarily, it would be tanky, but less than a TS, and it would have the attack of a organ gun (so a bit more range than a TS), at least this is more or less my design…

@UlissePigro

UU land for sure Fante da Mar or Capitan da Mar.

Well, mine (fante de mar) is an infantry unit with an area of damage. I’m thinkering with other effects too, but for now it’s that.

Stradiots too can be a nice idea, those would basically the the first gold only unit that doesn’t need any upgrade (except elit) because you train them already FU.

@UlissePigro

UT2: u are right i don’t like it much, have to think to a possible change (the name should still remain Arsenal) like bonus 5 becomes instead thins unique tech.

I made that docks and siege workshops work 40% faster. My veneitans basically have docks that with SW and the UT works 100% faster (but without any eco or stats bonus), which is what the arsenal did.

@UlissePigro

Maybe Plate Mail Armor should be available, but first i’ll see how the civ works like that.

With FU halbs it may work.

@UlissePigro

so on land they raly main on archers that are FU and later on gunpowder. Maybe Plate Mail Armor should be available, but first i’ll see how the civ works like that.

I betted everything on foot archers, with any AR unit (except for CA, because they don’t have those) moving 5/10/15% faster in feudal/castle/imp. Then I given +1 attack to arbs throught the second UT. In my opnion, a mainly gunpowder civ has no future, and the venetians made extensive use of archers and xbow, respectively in their oversea terriotries and homeland.

@UlissePigro

Do u know a way to “mod” it for test?

Unless you are an PC expert, no. There are guides online, but for such an big job is difficoult.

Units can be tested in the editor though, with triggers and patience, to a certain extent…

@UlissePigro

Sry, i mean not for sure Captain or Fante da Mar, but Stradiot is a good idea too. I was only thinking that we have less gunpowder UU in game and lot of cavalry, i was thinking gunpowder in order to have more variability.

And the reson is that gunpowder don’t really work. Anyway, there are more infantry and archer UU than cavalry actually, but yeah gunpoder UU are rare, which actually fit a middlea ges set.

[Micriab123]

@UlissePigro

with respect to other gunpowder,

what is this supposed to mean?