How to move on from V&V

Filthydelphia has, for years, dubbed his scenarios as campaigns… using the terms interchangeably at times. For example, in 2020, he told me in this forum that one of his “campaigns” I tried was a “... single scenario campaign.” It really doesn’t seem to me like they lied or intentionally mislead. See these two old Filthydelphia threads from years ago:

And I don’t think anyone ever asked in those old threads, "Why are you calling them campaigns? That is misleading and false" (…but I, honestly, haven’t read through them with a fine-toothed comb recently).

I guess when it comes time to pay for them, that is when the semantics of things becomes problematic. Understandably so. But I think Filthy’s own words helps show that there wasn’t any intentional malice about the DLC. Marketing probably just went along with his phrasing, because I’m guessing it probably wasn’t a problem for the 25 years preceding V&V DLC, including with ‘The Battles and Conquerors’ campaign FloosWorld mentioned above

This is fair. I’m curious, though… is it as easy to bring a “single scenario campaign” from AoE2:HD over into AoE2:DE like it is bringing a Random Map Script (.rms) file over? With .rms it is, literally, copying/pasting the file into the proper DE folder. Would be interesting to know if “single scenario campaigns” are virtually this easy to “port” to DE

If it is fairly complex or cumbersome, though, I think there is some inherent value in having his previously released scenarios ported to the DE engine, since the graphical and audio upgrades alone are pretty stark. Yes, 14(?) of the scenarios were previously released in DE for free (which I can see how it makes the DLC cost a tougher pill to s w a l l o w so i am just curious

I’m okay with it, too. Partly because it is where I’d intuitively look in the UI to reach them, but also because each scenario could be considered a neatly-wrapped campaign; a sequence of events to reach a goal. Even the dictionary definition seems to back this up:

campaign /kăm-pān′/

1. A series of military operations undertaken to achieve a large-scale objective during a war.
2. An operation or series of operations energetically pursued to accomplish a purpose.

Just because the multiple steps to reach the campaign goal happen in one scenario instead of 5 or 10 scenarios, that doesn’t disqualify it as a campaign, imo.

The more the “campaign” naming issue is discussed, it really feels like semantics. Some prefer it one way, while others prefer (or are at least okay with) the other way. And, technically, neither is probably wrong :confused: I don’t personally see why the word ‘campaigns’ couldn’t or shouldn’t be used to describe the scenarios as long as the detailed Steam description and Marketing clarifies things… which they do. But due to semantics, I know that there are probably some people who would never agree with using ‘campaign’ to describe scenarios.

True. I think I always assumed campaigns were multi-scenario endeavors, but I can see how the two varieties should/could co-exist as campaigns… mainly as long as the Marketing clarifies things. Yes, it’s not ideal that the Marketing should have to clarify, but when both are housed under the Campaigns button in the UI, and both leverage the same type of campaign map selection screen as a starting point… along with other stuff I brought up above… it makes sense to me that Filthy’s scenarios could be named ‘campaigns’… or ‘single scenario campaigns’. (I actually thing the latter is a pretty good moniker)

:sweat_smile:

I’d like us all to now to start referring to “scenarios” or “single-scenario campaigns” as “cats”, and “campaigns” as tigers

V&V DLC was 19 cats, not 19 tigers :rofl:

I can’t really disagree with this, especially if porting scenarios from AoE2:HD to AoE2:DE is pretty simple. If they tried and failed to sell enough widgets at the inflated price in the market economy of supply and demand we live in, though, then they will probably adjust the price/product accordingly in the future and re-think future downloadable contents (this forum filter is beyond hopeless. It seriously wouldn’t let me type “DLC” there)

They often reflect reality, though. At ESPN’s website, I would hope to not find MLB stuff in the NFL section, or basketball stuff in the the soccer area. There’s a reason for categories, buttons, menus. Plus, the V&V scenario page has the same look & feel as the regular campaign page. I just don’t see it as a huge stretch to classify them as campaigns. At least they nestled the ‘single-scenario campaigns’ nicely in the upper-left to differentiate them a bit,…

I’ve written too much. I need to go play a game, lol!

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