If AoM2 was a thing which Civilisations should be in it?

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If AoM2 was a thing which Civilisations should be in it?
Similar to the AoE4 thread with the same topic.
Assuming only 10 civs in aoe4, what should they be?

I’m talking about Civilisations even though in this case they are also kind of like Religions.

I don’t want to set a fix number like this thread but the range of 5-10 different civilisations.
Either 5 every different civilisations like in AoM.
Or 10 different civilisations that share similarities like in AoE3 and might not have different main gods to choose from. Or something in between.

I’ll make two lists one for 5 and one for 10.
Maybe going to update later and add the most requested interesting Civilisations.

In case of 5:
Greece
Egyptian
Germanic or Norse
Chinese
Aztec

In case of 10:
Indian (Hindu or the old Vedic religion)
Babylonian (Akkadian/Assyrian maybe Sumerian)
Japan or Yamato
Inca
Haudenosaunee (Iroquois)

I think it would be nice if you instead of having different main gods the choice before the match would be different regions like Athens, Sparta and Thebes (important in mythology) for the Greece and Suebi, Norse and Goths for Germanic. They could still have different main gods like Athena would be obviously for Athens.

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In case of 5:
Greece
Egyptian
Norse
Babylonian
Celtic
In case of 10:
Indian
Japan
Chinese
Aztec
Inca

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5

Greek
Egyptian
Norse
Avestan (Ahuras)
Vedic (Devas)

10

Atlantean
Mesopotamian/Babylonian
Chinese
Canaanite/Punic/Phoenician
Celtic

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If we look at regional connections.

If we see the Greeks and the Egyptians as must have than the Hittites would be a nice addition. They would perfectly fit in as Troy and they could work as an antagonist to Egypt.
The Mesopotamian (Akkadian/Babylonian/Assyrian and maybe Sumerian) civilisations also come into contact with them.
They are a lot less famous but we know surprisingly much about their mythology. Their mythology would also be something new that people could get excited about.
The Persians and the Indians have the same roots so either they could be represented as the same civilisation or they would work nice as a pair. The Persians conquered Mesopotamia and Egypt plus tired to same with Greece.

There are also touching point between Chinese and Japanese Mythology. Or more Chinese History and Japanese Mythology as we already know a lot of China from the times where we just have Mythology from Japan. In that combination Koreans could work too. They all share some common gods and other mythology too.

China and India got into contact with Buddhism but it didn’t turn into the major religion in both regions. Buddhism was adopted by a lot of different cultures from Mongoles over Japanese to Indochina.

The Celts settled areas from Iberia over Britannia all over to Anatolia. That was long after the fall of the Hittite Empire in reality. They got there because they fought as Greece mercenaries and their language was still actively spoken in Roman times.
And the Celts where neighbours of Germanic tribes in central Europe.

From Egypt we can go over Nubia into Ethiopia too. Those regions where also connected.

Israelites are likely impossible for political reasons. Even earlier Polytheistic religions from that are might be hard.

Norse <-> Celtic <-> Greek <-> Hittite <-> Mesopotamian <-> Persian <-> Indian <-> Buddhist <-> Chinese <-> Japanese
(Korean and Egyptian are also in there but they don’t fit into my 1D graph.)

If I group them:
Barbarian (Norse/Germanic and Celtic)
Greek (Sub groups maybe Athens, Sparta, Thebes or Mycenae)
Hittite (Could maybe be grouped with Mesopotamian but they only adopted a little of their mythology and culture)
Mesopotamian (Assyrian, Babylonian and Summerian)
Aryan (Persian and Indian)
Eastern (Chinese, Korean and Japanese)
Buddhist (Mongolian, Chinese, Indian, Japanese, and many more in Indochina)
Egyptian (Egypt and Nubia/Kush)
African (Some of the many cultures from West Africa the leak of writing in the pre Islamic/Christian phase makes them harder to categorise.)
Maybe:
New World (Olmec, Maya, Aztec or Inca)

The new World is separate unless you go into those conspiracy theories that the Olmec is of Chinese and African origin. This way you could go all around the world.

The campaign could evolve around a group of Heroes travelling all around the world but I’d prefer separate campaigns that can be started separately like in AoE1/2 so there is choice and you don’t run into the risk that one mission with a difficulty spice would ruin the complete experience because there is no other campaign to play.

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In case of 5:

Greece
Egyptian
Norse
Japanese
Babylonian

In case of 10:

Aztec
Chinese
Celtic
Indian
African

Let it be real Microsoft! I’d pre-order it right away if you announced AoM 2 with these civilizations!

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My updated list:

Main 5

  • Greek
  • Egyptian
  • Germanic/Norse
  • Chinese
  • Aztec or other Central American like Maya (Replace Atlantians. They are both across the Atlantic so I think that would fit) maybe Inca

Additional 5

  • Hindu (Based on the Vedas) or Persian.
  • Mesopotamian (Akkadian (Babylonian and Assyrian) and Sumerian) or Anatolian (Hittie, Luwian, Trojan)
  • Celtic or Slavic (They are both nice but with Germanic there would be to much European)
  • West African (Vodun) or Ethiopian Mythology.
  • Japanese (Yamato/Yamatai/Wa)

Incomplete Civilisations

Civilisations that are only represented by a few units as Mercenaries or for Scenarios (in Addition the some of alternatives ones mentioned above)

  • Dravidian the old inhabitants of India.
  • Ainu or Jomon the old inhabitants of India.
  • Minoan the old inhabitants of Crete and parts of Greece.
  • Phoenician
  • Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) or Mississippian.
  • Korean Their mythology is quit similar to Chinese.

I like the idea of using Americans as replacement for the Atlantians. It would allow to use their Mythology while also fitting them into Greek Mythology.
Mesopotamians and Indians would also help bridge the gap to China.

Also all civilisations need named heroes! (Valkyries should be heroes)
I do like the Pharaoh mechanic though.

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Civilizations and their subcivilizations (which are selected during the choice of a god):

  • Germans: Vikings and Saxons
  • Balto-Slavs: Slavs and Balts
  • Hellenic: Greeks and Romans
  • Egyptian: Egyptians and Nubians
  • Mesopotamian: Babylonains and Persians
  • Pre-Columbian: Aztecs and Mayas
  • Far East: Chinese and Japanese
  • The Atlanteans would only have one variant.

A total of 8 civs (3 completely new) with 15 variants.

More civs would appear in extensions:

  • Hindus
  • Inca
  • Celts
  • Phoenicians

Maybe even:

  • Africans
  • Indians
  • Aborigines
  • Jews
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Am I the only person who likes the Atlanteans being a civ?

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I think there should be a civilisation in the game that takes the role of Atlantis but is not based on Greek culture.
A different civilisation like an American one or Minoan that is seen as Atlantis from the perspective of the in universe Greeks but has it’s own mythology.

For the Europeans the Native Americans where Indians so it makes sense that the Greeks would think of them as Atlanteans.
They could also get an island in the Atlantic.
This would allow to add American cultures into the game in a way that fits into a mythological storyline.

In a similar way I think the Romans and to Trojans should be the same civilisation. That is historically wrong but mythologically correct.

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I feel that by ‘explaining’ myths such as Atlantis in this way it takes away from the Mythology part of the game.

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The problem it Atlantis is that it was barely mentioned in ancient texts.
They are not Mythology they are fantasy.
Mythology is something that people believed on in the past or sometimes even do today. Fantasy is something the developers/story writes come up with. Atlantis in AoM is mostly fantasy.
I want AoM not to by Warcraft. I want it to be based on Mythology not Fantasy.

If Americans are added there has to be made a connection between the old and the new world based on the mythology of both of them because it takes part even before the Vikings landed in Vinland.

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Mythology is the collection of traditional stories, common misconceptions, or imaginary elements that belong to a culture or religion. Atlantis is all of these things, especially to modern Western culture, and was believed in by both ancient and medieval peoples, despite having started off as a work of fiction.

Many philosophers and theologians believed it to be real, such as the Greek philosopher Crantor, the Jewish philosopher Philo, and many early Christian writers such as Cosmas the Monk.

Atlantis was not the Lord of the Rings of its day, it was the Yeti/Sasquatch of its day. A cryptid, something hidden and undiscovered, that many were convinced was real. Some people still believe it’s real to this day!

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I don’t mean that people back than thought Atlantis is fantasy (it was debated back in ancient times though) but that Atlantis is not real therefore doesn’t have it’s own mythology, architecture or human units. They are all fantasy or based on Greek mythology. They are basically a fantasy/Greek mix in AoM.
I would rather have a civilisation based on “real” mythology, or if Atlantis was in the game, base them on something more exotic like American (Aztec/Maya/Olmecs) mythology instead of more Greek one.

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5:
Greek
Egyptian
Norse
Chinese
Aztec

10:
Japanese
Indians
Mesopotamian
Māori
Celts

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In case of 5:
Greece
Egyptian
Norse
Indian (Hindu)
Aztec (Nahua culture)

In case of 10:
China
Babylonian
Inca
native north american culture (Inuit, Comanche, Apache, Sioux, Iroquois or navajo)
Polynesia

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How about 8 civilisations like AoE4.
AoM kinda released with 9 civilisations because each of the major gods were as different as AoE1/2 civilisations compared to each other.
I don’t think AoM2 should do that again because it would limit the number possible cultures represented in the game

AoM civilisations

  • Mycenaean/Homeric Greek
  • Egyptian
  • Germanic (replace Norse)
  • Pre Imperial Chinese

New cultures

  • Mesopotamia (Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian and Assyrian)
  • Indian (Vedic period)
  • Japan (Yamato)
  • Maya

I think they should be seen as cultures not as civilisations. Some civilisations shared a lot of cultural elements like Sumerians, Babylonians and Assyrians despite speaking different languages.

Greek

The representation of the Greek in AoM is based on the very late Macedonian and Hellenistic Greek armies. I think the focus should shift more towards Bronze Age, representing the Greeks in Mycenaean period. Only getting Iron equipment in the last Age.
With movies like Troy or game like Total War Troy people should be more familiar with Bronze Age Greeks compared to when AoM was originally released.
Give them a slow moving wooden horse unit than can move through enemy gates and can carry units.

Egypt

Egypt in AoM has some elements that were historically only present under the Greek rule in later periods that maybe should be removed.

Germanic

The Norse in AoM were very focused on Scandianavia but I think it would be nice to include the continental Germanic people too. Adding Gothic and German elements.

China

Remove the gunpowder! That’s basically it. I like that China in AoM is mostly based on Ancient China and not Medieval China.
Architecture should be improved.

Mesopotamia

The Sumerian culture lived on under the Babylonian rule, so much so that most surviving documents in Sumerian language are written by Babylonians.
The Assyrians ruled over different parts of Mesopotamia but they shared most religious aspects.
The choice of gods on age up could shape the civilisation in a way that it becomes more Babylonian or Assyrian over time.

Indian

Old Vedic civilisation that moved into India from central Asia and mixed with the local believes. Luckily we have a lot or religious texts from that time. I think they should not feel like modern India/Hindu because that would break the theme of the game using a modern Religion.

Japan

Maybe they could be called Yamato like in AoE1 to make them feel more ancient.
We know very little from early Japan because all the texts about that time are clearly mythological and not historical, that is bad for a historic game, but awesome for a mythological one like AoM.
The hard part here would be to decide how many Buddhist elements should be in the game. The two religions Shinto and Buddhism are hard to separate in Japan nowadays so people might be confused of all the Buddhist stuff is missing in the game because they’d expect it to be there.
They should be the cavalry civilisation of the game while most other civilisation rely on chariots.

Maya

I think Maya are the better option compared to Atzecs and Inca because they are a much older civilisation and not a late Medieval one.
But unlike the Olmec or Teotihuacan civilisations the Maya survived to this day.
But the Aztec, Teotihuacan and Maya religions have a lot over overlap anyway.

Units

I think the game should not be too similar to games that depict a more modern time frame like AoE4.

Cavalry

Cavalry wasn’t a think in the Bronze Age. I think it doesn’t fit well for most civilisations as none of them besides the Japanese were known for Cavalry.
Cavalry shouldn’t be one of the main Rock, Paper, Scissors units.
Chariots were more prominent. But I think an Anti-Archer Infantry like the Eagle Warrior (Coyote Runner in AoE3) or Huskarl should be available for most civilisations.

Siege units

I think AoM2 doesn’t need siege units like AoE2/4. Rams, Infantry and Mythological units should be enough. Heavy defence doesn’t fit into the setting, the game should not play like AoE2/4.
Unlike AoM I don’t think that every, or even the majority, civilisation needs a ranged siege unit (Catapult).

Gods

I think there should be no Major gods anymore, that makes balancing easier because now there are 1/3 the number of civilisations.
As a compensation there are 3 gods to choose from on every Age up.
Also Age up is like AoE4 but instead of Landmarks you build a Temple/Shrine for one of the gods on each Age Up.

Techtree

I think the Techtree should look a more like AoE1. I think AoE1 encapsulated the feeling of a Stone Age tribe slowly turning into an Empire very well.
Also more units and buildings should be shared but each unit and building has a civilisations specific skin.
Like everyone has the same Spearman unless the have a unique unit that replaces it like the Hoplite.
I also really like how AoE1 looks and feels like.

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Default 5:

Greece
Egyptian
Norse
Japanese
Chinese

DLC 1:

Aztec
Inca
Native North american (mixed)
Indian

DLC 2:

Babylonian
Slavic
Thai
Celtic

This way we will cover most of the world.

Maybe a third dlc about only African civs; the thing is their mythology is so different from place to place that maybe they’ll need their own dedicated dlc.
Or perhaps they could be mixed and released as an umbrella african civ. Similar to a specialized Native American (north) civ from the first hypothetical dlc. Also, in that dlc I’d give higher priority to incas instead of aztecs. I googled both: they have about the same number of gods but incas have more myth creatures and beasts. At the end of the day, the main concept of the game is training myth units.

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You forgot about the Atlanteans who are already in the game.

In my opinion, this civ could get a new name - Romans.

Obviously this is a proposition for remastered of AoM 1. But this civ could also be the default civ in AoM 2.

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I relied on another topic, but I will leave it here as well.

Guys, I studied ancient mythologies of various peoples and by far the most mythological creatures have Slavic and Hindu mythos, and also very unique ones. Actually, I am making my own game with these creatures, but as I am fan of AOM and AOE I would also like to see them in this game as well.

Interestingly, Egyptian mythos have very few mythological creatures, for example anubites, avengers, roc, leviathan, war turtle, phoenix are not from their mythos, rather made up or taken from other cultures.

Here is the small list of most relevant creatures from Slavic mythology which could be used in game (meaning there are a lot more, and I mean A LOT MORE), and these are divided by south Slavs, west Slavs and east Slavs. Put in order from weakest to strongest:

South Slavs (mainly Serbia):
Beda - pathetic ghoul
Besomar - ravenous ghoul
Drekavac - something like chupacabra
Bukavac - something like basilisk
Čuma (chuma) - deformed witch
Baba Roga - hag (similar to Baba Yaga)
Vampire - the original Vampires are of Serbian origin
Dhampir - half human half vampire (also original)
Vukodlak - werewolf
Psoglav - giant three-eyed were-dog
Todorac - shadow rider fused with his horse
Ala / Šarkanj - giant snakelike wyrm with huge mouth (wants to eat Sun)

East Slavs (mainly Russia):
Poroniec / Navi - dead babies with raven wings
Alkonost / Gamayun - harpies
Vodyanoy - water mutant man
Bies / Chort - devilish satyr
Babayka - witch
Baba Yaga - hag
Rarog - giant fire bird
Žar (zhar) ptica - phoenix
Zmey - dragon
Zmey Gorynych - 3 headed dragon

West Slavs (mostly Poland):
Psotnik - imp
Skrzak - winged imp
Topielica - drowned girl ghost
Rusalka - evil water nymph
Vila Poludnica / Polnoćnica - beautiful fairy midday
Dziwozona - female swamp hag
Likho - plague hag
Strzyga - vampiric ghoul-hag
Leshy / Svyatibor - forest spirit
Liczyrepa - mountain spirit (sometimes depicted as old man, other times as horned demon)

Obviously some creatures are mentioned in all Slavic regions, some are specific to certain region. These are just the most interesting creatures that could be used in AOM DLC.

Other members mentioned origins of Slavic Mythos and culture, I am just adding some creatures I researched over the years.
Hindu mythos has as much creatures as Slavic, but many more Gods, and is one of most interesting Mythologies I studied! I would very much like to see these two cultures in some DLCs!

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