My balance suggestions for August patch

There have been many discussions about balance changes in the near past, here is a wrap up of what I think could be done is the next big patch for balancing. Note that there are many more things to be done for balancing aswell in my opinion, but now I only list the most important ones that can fit in one patch so the amount of changes will be adequate.

-hand cannoneers +5% accuracy (from 65 to 70)
-chemistry research time decreased by 10 seconds (from 100 to 90)

-steppe lancer rate of fire decreased by 0.3 (from 2.3 to 2.0)
-steppe lancer movement speed increased by 0.05 (from 1.45 to 1.5)

-supplies cost decreased by 30 food and 30 gold (from 150 food 100 gold to 120 food 70 gold)


-Leithis gold cost increased by 10 (from 50 to 60)

-(Elite) Genoese Crossbowman training time decreased by 3 (down to 19 for base and 16 for elite)
-Elite Genoese Crossbowman upgrade cost decreased by 100 gold and 100 food (from 900f 750g to 800f 650g)
-Dock technology discount decreased by 10% (from 50 to 40)

-Chatras UT gives elephants +20HP (from 50 to 70)

-(Elite) Janissaries +5% accuracy (from 50 to 55)

-Warship discount in imperial age decreased by 5% (from 20 to 15)


The viking and Italian water nerfs are what I would had in mind too.

The rest I don’t agree with you for various reason, since I would like these problems solved differently.

I am convinced that only ballistic and bullets as fast as arrows can really help gunpowder. Optimally I would wish for a new uni tech after chemistry that is ballistic for all non siege gunpowder units (so that snippy BBC is only a thing still for Portuguese)

I still think potential paladins with +4 attacks are too much. They should change the relic bonus to go up to +5 again, make it affect all meele units and remove blast furnace. With this the leitis can stay as is.

Instead of cheaper supplies I would want cheaper longswoards and maybe two handed.

Steppe lancer will never get a niche. I am convided we need to remove knights from Mongols and tatars. Then they can be balanced to work as faster and ranges but Less bulky replacements. Cumans should keep knights, imperial step lancers should not be a thing. The hp would need to be buffed to 90 and 110.


Can you list your preferred changes please?

I editer my post above

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Why decreasing the dock bonus without buffing anything else? That would bring back vikings mirrors all over water maps.

Also what about giving them a bonus like 40% faster training time for all foot archers (xbows, skirms and GC) this would fix the GC and would give them a bit of a buff on pure land.



I don’t know if it’s a good idea…

I would instead either:

  • decrease the cost
  • reduce the TT
  • buff their infantry bonus

This isn’t that necessary in my opinion…

That’s a bit tricky… I onestly don’t have a feedback to you.

It is already italian mirror all the time so I’m pretty sure italians will still be pretty good. Vikings get a small imp nerf though since they are better than most other water civs like you said

Balance discussion on the steppe lancer

What about HCs affected by TR?

Let us hope :slight_smile:

This can be even more imo

This makes sense it you think that el dorado give +40 hp to a unit having 60

I am favorable in nerfing water civs, even more. Like even vikings a 10% flat discount and Italians a huge 30% dock discount nerf.
However, if so, to avoid a total kill of Italians on hybrid maps I would buff the age up discount like 20/25/30% for feudal/castle/imp (or a flat 25%). With a 30% doch tech discount this is still a killing nerf on water especially in imp. Take a look at the computation New italians after the update and further ideas for the next ones


no, it wouldn’t. On maps where you don’t have the possibility to backdock (eg: team island) italians would still be the best choice. Tbh both vikings and italians should get a small nerf on water.

This is way too strong. On land italians are fine


Portuguese has been also discussed. The 20% gold discount seems to help very little. Portuguese needs love.


Agreed, but I’d rather buff portuguese for now by a general HC buff, and then see what happens.

Supplies is bad because you have to get it before you make units unlike for any other upgrades. This makes it very expensive.

Let me add a couple of things from the other discussions:

They still need some trash love. People ask for trash scorpions, some gold trickle, e-skyrms. They need something

There is a huge discussion on them. People are more towards an archer military buff (+1PA for archer-line and skyrms) and do not like the idea of nerfing them on water.

A water nerf (which I am fine with, but I am one of the few people) must be followed by some sort of land push. I would even put both the discounts (dock tech and age up) to 30%, this is a huge water nerf (killing in imp) + a solid land buff (New italians after the update and further ideas for the next ones)

I think you have been a bit conservative. The proposed buffs (in the other huge discussion) are on average stronger than yours. That is why I am asked about TR affecting HC…

Always love it when someone makes a blanket statement with zero backing

They still have some of the lowest pick rate AND WIN RATE of all civs across almost any category 1v1,TG high or low elo… Yeah im sure they are fine :+1::+1::joy::joy::joy:


The problem in my opinion is that Italians don’t get a water UU, so their 50% disc is their only special thing.

I read about the SL, I just don’t have a personal opinion about it, nothing convince me.

But it pays back itself after a bit.

That means that people prefers other civs, not that they are bad. People pick goths a lot yet they are still bad in most situations


Agreed. And any buff to supplies nerfs the civs that don’t have access to it. If anything i would decrease the cost of long sword upgrade only.

Crazy that it costs so much more than xbow yet is definitely not meta like wth?

At least the pathing buffs have helped infantry as well

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Ohhh ok everyone must be mistaken then. They aren’t playing to win. They are playing their favourite civs. Golly gosh who would’ve thought that in ranked…

Goths have a high win rate and pick rate because of boogley boo muffin cups,not because they actually do well. I must be mistaken

PS because you missed it i said PICK RATE AND WIN RATE


I’m not conservative, but rather think they do not need that big of a buff like others say (for example buffs like +15HP or +20% accuracy are definitely something I do not agree with)


Let’s speak about weaker civs

Italians are barely useful on land (expect Arena, but Byzantines are a better choice)

Give their Archer-line +1 pierce armor in Feudal Age, reduce the stupid cost of the bad Elite Genoese Crossbowman upgrade and their training time to 16(13 elite) seconds.

Elite Janissaries should have +25% accuracy because they can’t hit also Turks should recieve Elite Skirmishers and Pikeman

Portuguese: Organ Guns +1/1 armor or affected by Carracks and remove their minimum range + recieve Squires

Koreans: extend their bonus to siege, Panokseon should give 25% faster speed, Turtle Ships should cost - 20G, Shinkchon -200W

Burmese: Howdah +2/2 or 2/1, recieve Siege Ram, Elite Arambai +2 archer armor, Manipur Cavalry -300F

Bulgarians: recieve Champion (not free) if too op Bagains should give one less melee armor, recieve Paladins (unaffected by Stirrups, while Cavaliers benefit from it), Blacksmith works 80% faster, Town Centers cost 25S, instead of 50.

Saracens: Zealotry -300food and gold, Madrash returns 80G, recieve Shipwright, Mamelukes aren’t part of the Archer armor class and -10G