My proposed balance changes (for whenever we get a patch)

Ok but you need to increase the speed of other infantry units that are at the same level as well, like the serjeant.

I would instead buff their monastery, but TR can be good as well.

That’s a lot for a civ that already have discounted scouts and free attack upgrades (one of the strongest scouts rushes of the game).

It’s 136 food with just the 2 boars, and another 112 with deers. More than what mayans get.

Maybe just a bonus that meat doesn’t rot, both on hunt and herdables.

Why, they already have trash 2HS, why buff them even more.

Maybe free infantry armors could be an alternative.

They need to lose something in return though, like squires (to name one…)

Also, maybe a bonus that eco buildings give +5 pop.

I would like to test this, it seems messy but it could have potential…

I’m not convinced though…

Mmm… I’m not convinced about this one, but I can’t understand why…

For the rest I agree with you more or less, but I think that also Italians, koreans, spanish and goths.

I would like to Donjons have 25% more HP in Feudal Age, to 1250 and 33% more HP in Castle/ Imperial Age, to 2000 and 3000 HP. Should help justify their higher cost. (They do get Guard Tower and Keep free in a sense.)
Serjeants should have +5 HP in Feudal and +10 HP in Castle and Imperial. They need a bit more bulk.

I’m surprised that no Monastery tech is given for free. Maybe that’s for the better. Although, free Sanctity or Fervor could be good for Spanish.

Overall i like your ideas.

Going in detail about the burgs, i liked the economic bonus idea.
The flemish militia idea is also good, losing vils is a bad mechanic in my opinion.
I’d also give them access to bloodlines as well, but only in imperial (no one wants to see 140hp cavalier on castle age). This could be a reword from their cavalier bonus: Cavalier acessible on castle age, but bloodlines only available on Imperial age, because IMO a cavalry civ without bloodlines is just lame, it’s comparable to an archer civ without bracer (Cumans). Coustilier hp can then be adjusted if needed.

That’s not true at all, a paladin even without BL is way better than a generic FU cavalier. And in the castle age the cavalier upgrade is even better than a generic FU knight.

On top of that, they have the more accessible paladins of the game, with half the cost and being able to click it as soon as they hit imp.

So basically you give them magyars UT. No thanks.

That’s not needed, they already are a top tier water civ.

Just adjust the ratio of trash resources - gold to 1:1.

Not quite. This tech trade range for dmg, because compare to Magyar their CA would lack 2 ATK. Remember, Persians dont have Bracer.

But this would make them viable also on Hybrid maps, not just on Pure Water.

But this is about permanent effect.

They are already viable in that maps, they don’t need a buff.

It’s not needed that it leaves a permanent effect. A bonus or UT just have to have an effect that it’s decent, and that work in the way it’s supposed to be, it doesn’t matter if it’s situational.

But range is what is more important.

Also, they already have good foot archers, and great cav. I get that implement the UT in the WE directly would be better, I agree on that.

But the persians are already a solid civ, they don’t need buffs elsewhere.

This is why I take away Squires from them, to nerf Halbs in exchange. Was thinking also about last Inf Armor, but I felt sorry for those poor Longswords…
This would give them more variety - becuase they could play not just Knights, but CA additionaly.
Persians dont have “good” foot archers. They have “cheap” foot archers :wink:

To me, they are the same words…

Anyway, they don’t need more options onestly. Even if you take away squires, they would still fit their role, a meatshield against cav.

But their reaction time would be lower, so it would be easier to dodge them and kill those pesky Trashbows.

If I could change Persians, I’d swap trashbows with Mahouts, and change Mahouts to also make any attempt to convert an elephant unit have an equal change of converting any unit in the monk’s range. Essentially prevent targeted conversions.

That way a player could mix in a few war elephants and the chances of them being converted would be very low, but if they make mostly war elephants they’ll still most likely be converted.

Very good post, overall I agree with the vast majority of suggestions. Let me share my opinions on each suggestion:

I’ve made a detailed post regarding steppe lancers (since then there have not been any balance changes): Balance discussion on the steppe lancer. For anyone who only wants my suggested balance changes: -Cost decreased from 70 food 45 gold to 65 food 40 gold
-Rate of fire decreased from 2.3 to 2.0
-Speed increased from 1.45 to 1.50
-Elite Upgrade cost changed from 900 food 550 gold to 500 food 650 gold
If you want to argue against this please read my post linked above first

Notice that the unit with the most problems are the longswords and maybe two-handed swordsmen for civs who don’t have access to champions, because champions are overall fine (though some smaller buffs wouldn’t hurt the general balance for sure). For this reason I think the speed increase to 1.0 is just a way too big buff. Read my detailed opinions about longswordsmen here: Buffing long swordsman and their upgrades. Btw in that linked post I forgot to mention a very important thing → long swordsmen can force to take fights because they are strong versus buildings. In other words you must engage versus them with knights if you don’t want your base to get destroyed, and a long sowrdsmen player can easily mix in some spears to make that a very cost effective fight (since got barracks and right blacksmith upgrades). Therefore longswordsmen can be a very strong option against civs with bad archers with my buffs. (aka: Long swordsman, two-handed swordsman, champions gain +1 attack
-Long swordsman, two-handed swordsman, champions gain -1 attack against eagles
-Long swordsman, two-handed swordsman, champion gain 0.05 speed boost (from 0.9 to 0.95))

This one or something similar is heavily needed imo, the other two options are: chivalry nerf or cheap castle bonus nerf. Currently chivalry castle age is way too strong.

Well anyone who has read some of my previous comments here and there should know that I’m against chinese nerfs. But I don’t mind if we try something like this, at most we revert it. I’m only heavily against if it is a bigger nerf.

I agree that magyars need a small eco bonus but nothing too big, this might do it tbh

Can you please explain why this is needed? I’ll support this if you can convince me. Currently I don’t understand.

Portuguese are in a very good spot right now balance wise imo. Handcanoneers need some buff though. I like the feitoria how it is currently tbh, I feel this is completely unnecessary.

Too op for kipchaks, though I agree cumans should get a buff. I’d personally decrease 2nd TC building time by 10-20 seconds.

They are already a great civ with 55% winrate on a lot of maps. Would need to be nerfed elsewhere is exchange for this eco bonus.

I also think it’s too early to determine Sicilians, they seem to do better than Burgundians on several maps

Goths could use Thumb ring.

The maps magyars has a big winrate on have less then a 3% playrate and regularly rotate out of the map pool.

0.95 speed is too fast, this way Celt LS would run like Eagle Scouts. Don’t mind the attack bonus.

I’d rather nerf their eco (like start with 5 vills and -150 food or sth)

I much prefer the official changes in the beta patch.

Magyars don’t need changes.

I much prefer the official changes in the beta patch.

Hard no. FU spam CA? Kipchaks that can already be oppressive if massed? Cumans need something else, they are just super awkward with their niche TC bonus.

The rest is ok.

Edit: I don’t understand your Portuguese change, is it just a Feudal Age feitoria that replaces the market and has better trading prices than Saracens?