New abilities for 'stealth' units and rework the improvements 'spies' and 'metropolis blockade'

I have talked about this before here: Nearly outdated stuff that could be useful. (Potential improvements), but I think it is very complex and deserves its own topic and an open discussion.


Currently the stealth ability is very underutilized because it doesn’t actually grant a true tactical advantage as one would expect. That is why I propose the following:
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Ranged Attack Enhancement with Stealth Skill Activated:

Ranged units will be able to fire their first shot from 2 points of range farther than in ‘discharge mode’.

For example the Navajo Rifleman in case of entering ‘stealth mode’, their first shot may be made from a little further away if the target is within their visual field.

New ‘Spy Capability’ Mechanic:

Units of type ‘stealth’ + ‘view stealth’ will be able to see the technologies or upgrades / units that it investigates / creates if they are close to the respective buildings. (For example, if you pass near the urban center you can see how many villagers it has in the production queue or if it is advancing in age).

You will also be able to see the destination of the metropolis and the shipment in progress in case of passing near the destination of metropolis. They will also be able to see how long it takes for the opponent to win a new send from the metropolis in case of being close to the destination of the metropolis.

For the espionage skill, both skills (stealth + see stealth) are required, such as nijas, spies or native trackers. Or it could be a new label called ‘espionage’ for these types of units.

Note: I would like the spy upgrade not to affect units with the ‘stealth’ ability. That is, they are not revealed with the spy upgrade if they are in stealth mode.

Hot air balloons and emissaries could have this ability even if they don’t have both abilities (stealth + see stealth).
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Improved ‘spies’ and ‘metropolis blockade’.

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Spies:

In team games implementing spies is usually too expensive and many times it does not reach the budget, so I propose the following:

It could become a temporary ability similar to that of ‘Great Buddha’ (Maybe 5 minutes (?)), but much better and only applicable to one player at a time. That is, you can see everything a player does in the ‘player summary’ in addition to his presence on the map:

Economy and income per minute.
Number of villagers and military units.
Units production in progress.
Technologies or improvements in research or investigated.
Cards received or in progress of sending.
Destination of metropopli.

blockade of metropolis

Make the opposing player temporarily stop gaining experience (Maybe 2 minutes) for a price of 2000 (To say something) coins, and the opposing player could pay the same amount to lift the block immediately. This must be a skill that takes a considerable time to recharge (8-10 minutes (?)).

In case of being a team game, you must choose from the player’s summary which one you want to block. That is, you will not block everyone, only one at a time.

If the game is in a team, in case someone has already blocked his metropolis and he has unlocked it there. It cannot be blocked by other team members for a specified time. (This to prevent it from being blocked consecutively)

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Que tal que garantice hacer un impacto critico de x3

Mejora de “espías” y “bloqueo de metrópolis”.

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espías

No te voy a mentir. Espías me gusta tal cual esta implementado.

bloqueo de metrópolis

Creo que el bloqueo comercial debería costar oro por segundo (25 de oro), escalando el coste por minuto (x2) hasta que te quedes sin oro o hasta que lo desactives.

Además, no tendría que poder anular los envíos

Además de poder anular el bloqueo de metrópoli con una mecánica similar.

Personally I think stealth is already strong enough.

For the skirm-type units, if you scout calv and you don’t have anti-cav you can put them in stealth and wait until you have anticav.

It’s very good for raiding. You can make 5-10 shinobis/Navajo riflemen, attack some vills, then stealth them long before any enemy units arrive then repeat 1 minute later.

Putting native scouts in stealth on an enemies hunt or mine is also rather good for intel.

Some melee units like the ninja/coyote runner can also cheese down cannons with stealth.

I think the main reason it may not be utilized in every game is simply that there are not that many units that have the ability. I believe most civs’ only stealth unit is the spy.

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But it would be nice to extend the usefulness of this skill. Having information from the enemy would be good. Many rts rely on espionage to counter or prepare for what the enemy is doing. For example in SC-2 you can see what units / technologies the enemy creates / investigates and many times it is decisive. We give more value to units such as the hot air balloon that is hardly used.

The idea came to me when I read this forum: Scoutable TC Glow For Aging Up, No TC Building Restriction

I also like it, but in team games it is usually too expensive. If it becomes a skill it will drastically reduce costs and it would be temporary, but it would be more feasible.

I did not understand well, could you explain better?

I’m just trying to make the ‘metropolis blockade’ useful, but maybe there’s no interesting way to implement it. Maybe it is best to remove it from the game.

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El cometario es una idea de como creo que podría funcionar bloqueo de metrópolis. Tu idea también me gusta, solo quería aportar otra opción

bloqueo de metrópolis

Cuando actives el bloqueo de metrópolis por primera vez, cada segundo te restara 25 de oro, cada minuto a partir de la activación del bloqueo de metrópolis el coste se duplicara, por ejemplo de 25 a 50, de 50 a 100, hasta que no puedas mantener el coste porque lo dejaste activado mucho tiempo o hasta que desactives de manera manual el bloqueo de metrópoli para evitar que el coste en oro siga aumentando o destruya tu economía.

Características

si tu oponente activa el bloqueo de metrópoli y estabas enviándote alguna carta no anula el envió, pero si los siguientes

Además tendrías que poder anular el bloqueo de metrópoli con una mecánica igual al bloqueo de metrópoli, pero que anule el efecto del bloqueo de metrópoli

Esta debería ser una habilidad que requiera un tiempo considerable para recargarse (¿5-10 minutos?).

Me gusta tu idea. Yo solo decía que además tengan daño critico también.

¿Mejor? Si todavía no se entiende especifícame que no se entiende y lo intento explicar mejor.

Gracias por responder. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I like the idea of using espionage units for information gathering, like the changeling or observor in starcraft 2.

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@newaoeiiiai Spies could give you the info that you wanted in other post: techs, age up, training…
Also they could work as spies work on C&C RA3, where they can be used to block a building and dissapear.

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… What if it is replaced by an improvement that allows shipments to arrive faster?

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Si lo que planteas es que lo cambiemos por otra cosa, me parece bien.

Opciones alternativas a bloqueo de metrópolis:

Tu idea (que los envíos lleguen más rápido).
Revolucion 2.0 (Revolucion en imperial).
Mas economía (Poder producir carretones de fabrica).
Mas producción de soldados (podemos crear de 10 en 10 unidades y son mas baratas)

Tu idea me gusta pero, ¿Qué tan buena es la mejora de los envíos? y ¿Por qué tenemos que esperar hasta imperial para usarla?

Quizás algo como mas parecido a el (Logista Español = Spanish Logistician)

The metropolis blockade is boring and practically nobody uses it. I suppose that if something does the opposite, would like more. The reason why it should be an upgrade from the imperial era is because it would be more useful for the treaty and because it would be a very powerful upgrade to be before.

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Me parece poco que solo aumente la velocidad de llegada de los envíos, además si estas en imperial ya te enviaste casi todo lo que necesitabas de la metrópoli. En mi opinión tendría que hacer algo mas.

For infinite shipments of type ‘infinite natives’ or ‘infinite mercenaries’ or ‘infinite supplies’.

i wouldnt want stealth to become much better. turns the game too much into starcraft which i dont enjoy. its already usefull like witj aztec jaguars to sneak up on cannons or skirms.

when stealth was first introduced in war cheif is was majorily pissed back then, because it was one of the first stepped that turned the pure age of empires 3 vanilla game into a mess with auras, abilities, dances, wonder abilitties and much more to come. before de released i didnt even play Warchiefs and TAd besides owning it and only played nilla. thats how much i disliked it

i have stomaged stealth now, but please dont buff it.

only the spies need a buff. the should have a special attack range 10 pistol shot every 10 seconds

The difference with SC-2 is that in AOE-3 the units reveal themselves when they attack and are easier to detect. Units in stealth mode are much slower than SC-2.

Yes, and it’s good that’s, it’s this way. Better keep it sitautionally, useful but mostly niche. I would hate to see stealth become meta

Konahrik1140 On second thought, I think spying should also be a coin-per-second skill. And the block could be replaced by an ability that spends coins per second that assures the arrival of shipments and discards the block from the game since almost nobody uses it.

Now that Mexico has one of the best stealth units in the game that can spy on the units it attacks, the other stealth units could have some similar improvements.

The spy could win a ranged attack.

Other units like the Navajo could also move without losing speed while in stealth mode.

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Me alegra que te guste la idea y gracias por decírmelo :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Un bloqueo de la metrópoli que cueste oro seria el counter definitivo para México y sus revoluciones. Chic@ List@. :wink:

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