I know that is late, but here Is one idea to the mill bonus
- the first mill Is free (or 50% cheaper) and builds 25% faster
Im.not a fan of that bonus tbh
Also cheaper mills would just be the Japanese bonus again
I appreciate the effort you put in this but this civs is just meant to counter knights and would die to any archer civ in post-imperial.
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They have lower average Skirms but they can use them also, they have medium cavaliers and onagers. I agree, but they also have gunpowder to counter Infantry civs, and they can spam Arbs with their gold bonus that Boost their production. The civ wouldn’t never be seen against archers, but they can do against cav and inf civs.
Don’t forget tavern units 
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Another idea? I like to get something good for food production on this civ.
Finished sheep grant extra food
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I probably overstated their weakness to archers, but I still think it is a problem should be addressed. Their skirms are certainly usable, but I don’t think they good are enough against most of the ranged UU, Onagers are expensive, unreliable but also very powerful and they even have Synergy with SwissPike/Halbs but they still get countered by BBC, Longbows, and Mangudai. I don’t consider Swiss Cavalier to be an effective archer counter they lack Husbandry which puts them debatable on the same level as Britons and die to CA. There are only two units where that have no counterplay against, Longbows and Mangudai.
At first, I considered the mining bonus to just be a good eco bonus without fully considering it strength or the playstyle it encourages. It’s real strength in Feudal where you can just skip Mining camps when going for Archer you also can build tower(s)/sell stone with little commitment. Also, a high level of Saturation will not affect your efficiency which can be helpful in very Gold/stone intense strategies such as monk rushes. In the imperial age, this is not too strong since will likely have WB and HC which would have already reduced the walking time of villagers. I could compare them to the Vikings as they are both Infantry civs that ended up playing Archer the main difference is that the Swiss Eco that encourages them to make as many gold units as possible while Vikings have an Overall solid eco that encourages them to make infantry
My recommendations are to remove Arbalest, restore the final Archer armor upgrade, and give them SR and SO. FU siege could be fun with SwissPikes/halbs. I’m not sure what to do with the eco bonus but it encourages making units other than the ones your civs is supposed to be specialized. I would also redesign The Swiss Pikemen. As you described it’s a slow, powerful unit with tons of HP that is even more strong vs Calvary (also gunpowder). Swiss Halbs have pikemen formation making them more than capable of countering paladins and having a more tanky, non-trash version of the Halb line is unnecessary. I would prefer if instead, the Swiss Pikemen were resistant to Archers (and maybe slightly resistant to Anti-infantry BD) encouraging your opponent to consider Infantry as a counter which you could counter with Lansquenets.
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Like it. Marked for the changelog
Here a bit of context of the civ.
Swiss background:
The oldest human traces found in Switzerland are about 400,000 years old. However, the first permanent settlements on parts of today’s territory were not established until after the end of the Ice Age – about 11,000 years ago. Among the most interesting archaeological discoveries in Switzerland are villages built of wood on lake shores.
Roman Switzerland
At the beginning of the 3rd century BCE, the area that is now Switzerland started becoming part of the Roman Empire. Roman rule was gradually strengthened by the establishment of colonies. The indigenous peoples gradually adopted numerous Roman ways of life (Romanisation). The end of the Western Roman Empire led to the dismantling of the Roman administration in the 5th and 6th centuries.
The Early and High Middle Ages
In the Middle Ages, the area that is now Switzerland developed in ways similar to the rest of Western Europe. The first centuries were marked by migratory flows. This was the Völkerwanderung era, i.e., the early migrations of the Germanic peoples. Various peoples also settled in Switzerland, bringing with them new ways of life and languages. Christianity, which had already been introduced by the Romans, continued to spread. The church, with its bishoprics and monasteries, became an important landowner. In parallel, the nobility increased its power through conquests, inheritances and strategic marriages.
The Late Middle Ages and the Confederation
Since the 19th century, the Federal Charter of 1291 has been considered the foundation for the creation of the Swiss Confederation. At that time, the three valley communities of Uri, Schwyz and Unterwalden formed an alliance to better defend themselves against any attacks by foreign powers.
In the 14th and 15th centuries, the Old Swiss Confederacy developed as a loose network of alliances of rural and urban communes. The Confederacy’s process of expansion unfolded in various ways. Some territories joined the Confederacy voluntarily, becoming members with equal or lower standing, while others were purchased or conquered. The eight cantons of the Confederacy, known as the Acht Orte, generally administered their own affairs. However, they did send delegates regularly to the Federal Diet to discuss issues of common concern.
Screenshots:
Fundation of the Confederacy
Army:
Burgundian Wars:
Swiss Papal guards:
Campaign:
Its problematic to find a person but is not needed to do it. I thinked some ideas to do it:
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The 8 saints wars by the ejes of the swiss guard to fight italian state-cities
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Burgundian Wars
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Historical battle could be the swiss guards escorting the pope to safety while german mercenaries are attacking.it would be a fun scenario where you have a fixed force and have to navigate through urban areas.A reverse siege of paris from the burgundy campaign.
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With soundtrack by Sabaton.
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I don’t remember giving my feedback and opinions on this civ design, so I’ll do it now.
Mmm not bad but I wouldn’t probably research it, since spears are enough against scouts.
I would personally give them a bonus like:
- pikeman get +0.5 range and slow enemy units
That’s might convert into a 100 wood discount for feudal age, but you want to get eventually a mining camp for at least the upgrades. Still, it’s not an useless bonus.
Mmm basically the old Inca bonus, plus a bit of the byzantine one…
Maybe make just fortifications are built 20%, and walls 50% faster, so you can more easily wall and spend less vill time.
It could use the armored pikeman skin, but I don’t see how this would be different from the flamish militia unfortunately.
Maybe the UU could be a gunpowder unit too? The swiss were famous for being pioneers in the pike and shot formations.
Eh maybe with the +1 that I suggested you earlier it might be a bit too much… or maybe not if they lack the halb upgrade…
Seems nice.
See, that’s what I don’t like, it’s a bit too much out of the box for an aoe2 civ. Also, the landskenechts were actually rival of the swiss, and they pretty much hate each other, so having them as a swiss UU might be weird.
You could have an UB that train standard units though, for just a gold cost and that works 300% faster, like goth spam… I don’t know I’m just a tinkering…
Overall the civ is not bad, but maybe it needs a bit of more polish. It lack an eco bonus to start with, I might suggest that mills can train sheeps, for half the food that they give.
That might be a good eco bonus, since it would allow you to delay farms and invest your wood into archers.
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Changelog:
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The Pikeman bonus (research 1 age earlier) changes to → Pikeman 0.5 range and slow enemy units
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Mercenaries train faster → Sheep can be created on Mills by 50f and Cows on Castle age by 75f. (gives 150f)
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Walls built 50% faster, Tower upgrades 20% cheaper.
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Mining bonus stays.
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Swiss Pikeman becomes → Handschütze: HC that makes his shoots cross enemy unit rows. Attack bonus vs UUs (+4)
Stats: -
HP: 40 - 45 (Elite)
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Atk: 15 - 16 (Elite)
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Speed: Same of HC. (Not expert of this stats)
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Reload. 1s.
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Range: 6 - 7 (Elite)
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Armor: 1/1 - 1/2 (Elite) (affected by archer armor)
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Training time: 35s - 30s (Elite)
The pikemen already represents the Swiss soldier, but the Swiss also used the hand cannon, so a more creative UU makes the possibility to spam them in castle and help the rest of the Swiss player army
- UT 2: Phalanx Formation → Helvetian Discipline: infantry recieves -5 anti-infantry bonus, Gunpowder units +3 attack vs cavalry.
This would make them cover their weakness against archers and open the possibility to use another unit than pikeman to fight cavalries.
- Tavern: To avoid great changes to the game, now allies can train Handschütze by costing only gold. This build produces 4s slower of the respective training time of the UU.
@DoctBaghi Look the changes
I agree but that its utility is against knight not scouts. It is simply not worth it to delay your castle age time for pikemen they can’t force fight and die to an archer switch. I recommend early pikemen if your opponent is going knights and you are still researching CA, or you are committed to full feudal.
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Nice, always happy to help.
A sheep gives back 100 food, so you can make it even 50 food, then maybe in castle age you can unlock cows that cost 75 food but have 150 food.
Ok so it’s 2 different bonuses, you can make it even 50% cheaper for tower upgrades. Italians have them 33% cheaper and they are fine.
Mmm an anti gunpowder pikeman… I believe that you still need to work a bit to find the niche for the UU.
This way, the UU would be a mix between the condo and the new industrian anti archer infantry right?
I still believe that the swiss pike is represented by the standard pike line, so maybe a special HC would be better, especially because the main problem of HC is that you can mass them only in imp, but with a UU you can start training it in castle age.
Mmm arbs and HC would still destroy infantry… but the HC anti cav bonus is good, maybe you could extend it to all gunpowder units.
Why not being a wood building that allows for each allied civ (including the swiss) to train their respective UUs?
This would solve the problem of seeing more UU play in the game, of course a tavern should work slower than a castle while also not being able to research the elite upgrade, but it could be good.
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Then i can do something like: Towers 25% cheaper, to do not overlap with Italians.
the UT, i can do something like:
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Infantry units recieve -5 anti-infantry dmg, gunpowder units +3 attack vs cav
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Tavern concept is good, i can do it.
My idea was that if Italians get a 33% discount on all uni techs (which is where you research the tower upgrades) a civ bonus that includes only tower techs could be buffed even to 50% discount.
I mean, those techs are still locked behind a 200 wood building, so it wouldn’t be OP…
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My idea is that every civilization could train its UU inside the tavern instead that the castle, so that you won’t need to go into stone to train UU, but of course at a slower rate.
Not that each ally can train allied UUs, that would be broken OP…
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Changed that. Tower bonus is between those:
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Tower 50% cheaper
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Builds 25% faster
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+20 Hp
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+3 range
I changed UU, but still deciding what would be tower bonus.
Ofc i would remove masonry (how it writes lol, you understand me) To avoid making the civ just too opressive when rushing with towers.