Aren’t poles balanced right now? ^^
I still would fix them slightly, I already made a trread how I would change them:
And I still think that would improve the gameplay with poles and against them without changing their identity and/or overbuff or overnerf them.
It might be a small nerf overall, but I think as poles will be figured out they will still be very balanced with the proposed changes.
I don’t think they should be nerfed overall. The Poles are already now sitting at a below average win-rate on Arabia and on closed maps it’s even worse.
Maybe to start with Obuch - yeah, I agree and indeed Obuch is not substitute to Halberdiers and he is not Cavalry counter. But he is tough enough to survive many strikes from even Paladins. He only need 2 hits to turn fully upgraded Cavaliers to fragile unit that dies to Archers and even Skirmishers.
Yes, but it sounds like Leitis, Konnik, Boyar, Cataphract, Elephants are often used. Leitis, Konnik, Boyar, Cataphract dies to Archers and Poles can fully upgrade they attack and have Thumb Ring.
Obuch also dies to Teutonic Knight, but no one wants to use TK in real game except for lols, while Obuch is overall pretty good designed unit that you can use in many situations.
On the other hand Elephants are indeed weakness for Poles, they don’t have strong counter in imperial age. And it is absolutely normal in this game, every civilization has match ups that have certain disadvantage against some civilization.
It’s almost a month since new civs are out, but I still lack solid experience with them in Imperial Age. But personally all I see are unfounded topics made only here on forum to nerf Poles and unneeded changes, not about “how bad Poles are in Imperial Age”. Imperial Age is still in favour for Poles with all those eco bonuses - they can get there much faster and with open tech tree you can go everywhere.
For Winged Hussar that counters all trash, has high damage and splash.
And Cavalier that has full attack costing only 30 gold.
If you have Bracer and Thumb ring it is fine. With Polish eco you can go fast imp Arbalests.
Polish weakness.
The SO are rarely used anyway and used mostly by civs that have bonuses to them.
Ofcourse you always rather have Siege Engineers in tech tree, but you have Siege Ram + Bombard Cannon so it is not that bad.
Let’s be honest water is really skippable in most cases. And if anyone plays water maps for real it is always Vikings-Portos-Italians anyway.
Agreed. Although Boyar might not always be true. Normal Boyar has 2 base PA like any other cavalry… and Elite has 3 base and Slavs get full armor upgrades (and bloodlines).
Boyars are easy prey for Archers, barely having more HP than cavaliers.
being able to tank 50 Arb shots is no joke though.
arb + obuch would wreck boyar though.
but 1 extra pierce armor.
you know what that does? Cavalier take 35 shots to die. Boyar 50. that’s almost a 50% increase in survival over cavaliers.
Yes, I was actually thinking to myself, that Poles might be literally the best civ for killing Boyars lol. The unit has probably the best armor stats in the game overall.
You are right I overlooked it, but still Boyar is hard to mass + Slavs don’t have bonus to get gold for them faster. But anyway if Polish player let boom Slavic player, the Elite Boyar indeed might be strong counter to Poles.
It is true that that pierce armor helps a lot. More importantly, they get bloodlines with it.
What tends to drag down the Boyar in games against Archers is the mix of its gold price, and Castle production limitation. You can mass Paladins from 6 Stables late game.
Right, but Slavs have cheaper siege. Boyar + scorps should be enough. Still, I would really like to see that situation in real game.
its 150 HP with bloodlines.
Boyar + Scorpion is also insanely expensive though.
That would require more than double the upgrades though, insanely expensive.
It isn’t insanely expensive. Arbalest costs 45 gold + 20 gold cost of Obuch. Also upgrades to Infantry are much cheaper ( also you are the Poles, you play civilization that food is not huge problem if use their bonus ).
And Obuch has really cheap Elite upgrade.
he said upgrade cost. u upgrade 2 units full archers infatnry: balistics chemisty armour attacks. not just cav upgrade
In that case Winged hussars become practically an overpriced reskin and Poles prob become OP as well with the best hussars in the game on a civ with a farming bonus (I think people are sleeping on this tbh, theres a reason all the civs with farming bonus dont have better than FU hussars(
Their Winged Hussar caps out at 4 Pierce Armor. Good luck getting close to archers, or raiding anywhere near defensive buildings. Even mass Skirmishers are a serious threat. I’d much rather have Turk or Tatar Hussars with 7 Pierce Armor.
And I think thats fine considering its for balancing a farming bonus as well as blast damage