Proportions, how to solve the problem... AGAIN (images)

[Tapiseiro]

The proportions are among the aspects that most affect how a game looks. Even more so than textures, etc… "The proportions don’t need to be 100% accurate, but they should at least deceive the eye at first glance to make it seem that way.

There are no people looking for bad proportions in a game. Yes, there is a portion of the audience that doesn’t care about this visual aspect, just as there is another portion of the audience (where I am) that does care. But there is no one specifically seeking bad proportions

HOW THIS PROBLEM STARTED?

Proportions were designed very accurately in AoE4 origins. But unfortunately, the buildings were originally designed larger than in another AoE game. So, units were enlarged by playability reasons and that’s how the problem began.

To the previous problem, we must add that production buildings (barracks,…) were made more little from 4x4 to 3x3. So here the problem culminated. We not only had buildings disproportionate with units, but they also were disproportionate between each other.
Before:

After:

I BELIEVE I HAVE EXPLAINED HOW THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME’S PROPORTIONS IS DUE TO COORDINATION ERRORS DURING ITS DEVELOPMENT AND IS NOT SOMETHING INTENTIONALLY DONE FROM THE BEGINNING

Now my question is, why is the problem being perpetuated instead of being gradually addressed?

See for example this house. Even if we would make units half in size, they would continue being disproportionate with this house. HOW CAN IT BE SO DISPROPORTIONATE?

Literally the house is not more little than in another AoE games. But by some reason, it is several times worse proportionate than in AoE2, AoM, or AoE3. It is worse proportionate even than the houses of AoE1.

As I said, bad proportions are among the aspects that most detract from a game’s appearance. So, why insist on making them so poor?

HOW COULD BE CORRECT THIS ASPECT CURRENTLY?

1. Houses, more taller in ages 1, 2 and 3 (and more proportionate in TIER4). There are not playability excuses. If houses can be taller in Tier 4, they can be just as taller in Tiers 1, 2 and 3.

1. Production buildings (barracks, stables, etc… reduced from 4X4 to 3X3): Those buildings must be at least sightly reworked because they are not proportionate even with other buildings.

Example, see this scene in AoE1 (a game with poor proportions but all the buildings proportionate between them)

And now see a similar scene in AoE4

HOW COULD THOSE REWORKS BE? Several examples (occupying the same surface 3X3)

3. Altering doors and other elements of the buildings
   
   
   
   
   
   

[Tapiseiro]

As an individual who values visual aspects, particularly proportions, I feel deeply disappointed by a game I had such high expectations for, such as AoE4. We were “promised” something in 2019, and the outcome turned out to be significantly different

Far from wanting to correct the mistakes they made with the proportions, they only perpetuate them with each DLC. They could release new civilizations with the proportions already corrected and gradually adapt the old ones, but they don’t.

Buildings not proportionated between them

[OperaticShip743]

I’m sorry to say that this is in vain. Good job, but for about a couple of years there has been a request to fix this and there doesn’t seem to be any effort.

[BitStuffer]

The best you can hope for is a good mod down the road.

[Tapiseiro]

Modders told me that they lack the tools to do something like that at the moment.

But it annoys me because it’s something that looks wrong and it’s that way because of coordination errors during development. It should be fixed by the game developers

[TsudaTumiko]

Mods don’t work in multiplayer…

[Franknezu11]

and they break anyways on every patch. modders has enough of it as we know from that post

[ahioz9426]

As always, I support you. Let me summarize again:

1. The actual floor area of the building remains unchanged, but it is necessary to increase the visual floor area/reduce wasted open space. In fact, this is how some enlarged landmarks are done this time.

2. The actual floor area of the building remains unchanged, and the height of the house is increased.

3. Doors and windows should not be made too small, at least the height of doors and windows should not be designed according to the building itself, but according to the height of people. This can be referred to how AOE3 is made.

[KG19991380]

@ahioz9426

Doors and windows should not be made too small, at least the height of doors and windows should not be designed according to the building itself, but according to the height of people. This can be referred to how AOE3 is made.

aoe2 as well, and other past games, minus imo aoe1

[Tapiseiro]

I wanted to refresh this topic to raise a question…

Is there any possibility of a graphical or visual DLC in 2025 that would address some of these issues?

[GabStrk]

Hystory

This is a fundamental problem that has been stressed by players since the first beta.
Nobody at World’s Edge or Relic has ever publicly commented on the issue.
To my knowledge, the only change made was a scale reduction of production buildings that worsened the problem even more, but, if I remember correctly, addressed some complaints from competitive players.

The problem

The problem of proportions among buildings, and then between buildings and units, is a crucial one in RTS games. There may be different solutions for various kinds of RTS, of which there are many, each with its own requirements and priorities.

It doesn’t help that this topic is strictly connected to the chioice of the camera. A certain type of camera parameters may help hide or instead evidenziate inevitable compromises regarding proportions. The camera is then linked to the type of RTS: more strategic, more tactical, few units, lots of units, random maps, fixed maps, general artistic direction, gamplay mechnics like batch unit creation few production buildings, single unit creation many production buildings, is there a second level of abstraction of the map or there is not, etc.

Finally, camera configurations may be tied to engine limitations and performance (even more binding in the case of porting to console).

So, to finally answer your question, it is very unlikely that anoybody would ever be able to do somthing about this fundamental issue. Be it for an art directional choice, fashion, engine limitations, or lack of understanding of different kinds of RTS, this is what was chosen early on in the development process and this is where Age IV is stucked.

Personal note

On a personal, irrelevant, note, this is the principal reason why I did not buy the game, and, after a brief period of testing on Game Pass after launch, I never tuched the game again.
By no means this is the only issue the game has, some are even almost as big. But no other issue is, to me, as repulsive as the selected combination of camera and proportions, both from a pure visual and a machanic point of view.

[MedicMaaan]

On release I marveled at the procedural doodads that get placed when a building is built. Proportion isn’t something that I thought too much about, but your examples, particularly the difference between AoE 2 and AoE 4, show how much better the game could look with some tuning on a building model’s scale. I also like the idea of each age increasing the vertical height of buildings.

I have no idea if they would do something like this. They don’t have a history of adjusting features like this on a major scale. It’s been texture changes and a slight adjustment to building size near release… You can see how they planned some buildings to be larger than their 4x4 or 5x5 footprint. (Something I think people may have forgotten about, and I’m glad you outlined it in the OP.)

I hope they do! Graphics updates in game have been popular most times they’ve been made. The game is now 3 years old and counting, it’s just going to look more dated as time goes on. To me, that’s reason enough to expect changes for building proportion and graphics in general. Other Relic titles, such as Dawn of War, have had major revisions to how graphics are handled between expansions. Nothing that would change the identity of the game, but enough to feel ‘new’.

I think it’s only a matter of time, but it helps a lot that people are showing an interest and keeping the conversation alive!

[Tapiseiro]

I leave here another topic.

There were two different reductions, a general increase of units size and a reduction of production buildings.

@GabStrk

So, to finally answer your question, it is very unlikely that anoybody would ever be able to do somthing about this fundamental issue. Be it for an art directional choice, fashion, engine limitations, or lack of understanding of different kinds of RTS, this is what was chosen early on in the development process and this is where Age IV is stucked.

Considering that the proportions were going to be decent at the beginning, and that their alteration was due to “last minute” changes and not to “art decision choices”, I think they could be perfectly corrected (as long as they want to use resources to solve this aspect)

@GabStrk I didn’t buy this game either because of the proportions and the visual damage they do.

[GabStrk]

Yes, thank you, I forgot about the scale up of the unit; talking about making a bad situation worse.

Yes, reverting proportions to artists’ original design would definitly solve the aesthetic problem, and should be cheap. I would prefer that. But then the playability problems they were trying to fix would come back. Unless they fixed the camera, but that seems to be some kind of taboo, or maybe an impossibility in the engine or something.

Adjusting each building as you have proposed is totaly feasible of course, and it would help. But it’s art work, so most probabily contract work, in any case extremely expensive at this point.

If at World’s Edge there was someone who cared enogh, they could definetly investigate the possibility to at least give the option to revert buildings and units proportions to the original value.

With this kind of modern studios it is all about budget: if some manager decide to include this changes in the next update or paid DLC, devs will do it. Otherwise not. Even if it is cheap or quick.

[Tapiseiro]

No, this could be fixed without playability problems. I detail how from here: (I tried to edit to make it more clear but is too late )

@Tapiseiro

HOW COULD BE CORRECT THIS ASPECT CURRENTLY?

[GabStrk]

Yes, I get it. Your solution works. But it costs money. Unless a manager sees a return for the investment, in terms of player numbers or revenue or marketing campaign or whatver, they will not do it. They simply do not care about the game.

[CagierNebula24]

My favorite game is 3 but it’s pretty mature. I wish they’d spend more time on 4, it has so much potential.

[jimmy19846071]

No, i don’t think so. I would like to see more graphic improvents, new 4k textures, wheater effects, more realism but my hopes are gone.

You should wait until next AOE titles.

[RoadtoSilver1]

[asdqews]

Your attemps are appreciated, but I dont think the devs would do anything. The issue has been raised since day 1 and NOTHING is done.
All they care is esports.