Speculation About Some Americans

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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In this post converge some civilizations that I would honestly only expect to see in mods, but that could precisely have a participation in the game without problems, which if it doesn’t happen is because they are overshadowed by other peoples.
The information in this post does not aspire to present complete civilizations, only to show ideas of what they could be. This is more a love letter to the cultures of my country (and one of the south) so is more for curious people.

AMERICAN CIVS UNITS
This aren´t unique units, but only are shared with other civs like Mexicas, Mayans, Incas or Purepechas.

  • Slinger: Fast shoot and move unit, but don´t deals much damage.
  • Javelin Thrower: Replaces the crossbowmen and have bonus damage against ranged units.
  • Axeman (Thanks for the suggestion): Replaces the Man-At-Arms, have less armor but more speed.
  • Canoe: Cheap, fast and weak archer ship.
  • Assault Canoe: Cheap, fast and weak melee ship effective against heavy ships.

THE REPUBLIC OF TLAXCALLAN

Tlaxcayan
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The unconquerables, those who without being a great empire like the Purepechas, were able to remain free from Mexica rule. Surrounded in the four cardinal points, without allies to trade and under the stalk of the sons of Tenochtitlan, the republic of tlaxcayan was born as a union of cities that developed autarchy to make up for the lack of trade.
They were Nahuali like their enemies, in the prehispanic Mexico that means they dominated the war like no one else. In a few years Tlaxcala becomes a bastion wit fortified out post and a population constantly ready for the war call.
Despite their situation, the tlaxcaltecans had a very interesting and developed culture. The red was the national color, maybe because they region was rich in this pigment. The poet – king Netzahualcoyotl fom Texcoco invite they to a poetry contest where I praise your gifts and proclaim you a people of fine arts. They were so proud of their corn farming and the deliciousness of their tortillas that their name means “Place of Corn Tortillas”

The Flag: I take a modern flag of Tlaxcala, keep the colors for their symbolic importance (especially red), the glyph is also an official one where there are two hands making a tortilla between hills, as in theri valley.

CIV BONUSES

  • Villagers +35% hit points and +1 damage in age II and age III.
  • Military units -15% cost and trains 20% faster.
  • Markets have better trade prices and return to the original prices after a while.

UNIQUE UNITS

  • Huexotzingan Warrior: Fast runner with high attack speed. But low HP. Some codex describes this elite warrior with a coyote helmet but other includes deer and alligator desing.
  • Coixtlahuaca: The warrior priest of the theocratic cholula fights using ranged weapons.
  • Tlaxcaltecan Warrior: Replaces the axeman and have +1/+1 armor in comparison.
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    Huexozingan

UNIQUE TECH

  • Atlatl (Shared with the mexicas): Javelins +2 of damage and +1 range.
  • Heron Banner: Symbol placed on the back to distinguish elite warriors. Tlaxcaltecan Warrior +20% hit points.
  • Chimalli (Shared with the mexicas): Archers gains a shield; this provides +1 pierce armor.
  • Defense Of Tlaxcallan: Outpost are upgrade to frontier out post, have more hit points and shoots one additional arrow and can trains spearmen and archers.

THE CHIMU KINGDOM

Chimu Kingdom
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After the fall of Wari empire, numerous kingdoms rise in order to domain the Andine territory, one of the most important was the Chimu Kingdom.
They were great goldsmiths and perhaps even one of the best metallurgists on the continent, such is their importance that much of what would later characterize the Incas come from this town and from the Tiahuanaco.
Their road system was complemented by maritime trade routes that they navigated in the “totora reed horses” in addition to the fact that they seem to have been the main merchants on the Pacific route, which connected them with the Mesoamericans, mainly the Mayans.
Their soldiers start to implement light bronze armor, and their cities have one fortified palace per family ruler, this structures were political and administrative centers, also forts.

The Flag: Well, I know a lot more of Mesoamerican peoples than southamerican cultures, but in my investigations I found this flag from Europa Universalis and make a comparation with their With their motifs on the looms, it seems to be something they would do, although I think more triangular and less square shapes would be more correct.

CIV BONUSES

  • Can train llamas in the Fortified Palace.
  • Takes 1 of gold per 10 of food gathered from farm animals.
  • Canoes 20% cheaper and faster.
  • Fortified Palace mechanic replaces the usual town centers.

UNIQUE BUILDINGS
Fortified Palace: Structure that replaces the town center and is limited to one per age. Trains llamas, hoots additional arrows, have more hit points and trains villagers 2% faster in age II, 10% in age III and 15% in age IV.

UNIQUE UNITS

  • Noble Guard: Melee heavy unit with damage for adjacent units.
  • Totora Reed Horses: Fishing boat and trade ship, cheap but weak.
  • Chimu Runner: Fast infantry with low hit points, deals additional damage against ranged units and siege units.
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UNIQUE TECH

  • Sea Bird Hunt: Docks generate food with time.
  • Artificial Wetlands: Llamas have 30% more food.

THE MIXTEC

Mixtec
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One of the most ancient cultures in Mesoamerica still exists in the fall of Tenochtitlan and in our days, despite their loss of the golden age. “The People Of The Clouds” worship the god of rain Dzahui instead of a solar god, fire god, or war god like other nearby civilizations. Their god was so important to them that they used to make masks that emulated his face. Some worshiped the Huehueteotl god of fire but it was not so preponderant, although they used to make braceros consecrated to him and they were quite common.
The situation of men and women was quite equitable, in the Mixtec and Zapotec conceptions the masculine and feminine roles were mutually complementary.
His relationship with water was something every day, many of his crafts were made of turquoise, they were covered with this material or painted with the same colors as some stone and clay objects.
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The Flag: Maybe one of my favorites betwen the flags I made, the mask is a reference to Dzahui and the principal color is turquoise in order to represent the water. The black part is because their corporal paints usually use black and the withe part is a reference to some ceremonial clothes.

CIV BONUSES

  • Starts with 2 houses already built.
  • A representation that they have been developing for millennia is that all resource harvesting technologies are obtained for free in age II.

UNIQUE BUILDING
Nopal Plantation: Mixtec’s take prickly pears from the nopales and infect some on purpose with cochineal because they get red pigment from them, which is highly coveted and can be bought at a good price.
Produces food 20% slower than normal farms (don’t replace this) and also produces gold.

UNIQUE UNITS

  • Oracular Priest: Replaces the usual priest but can attack and have an active ability with a cooldown of 18s: Can choose units in a small area, that units receive more damage from allies for 4s.
  • Deer Archer: Archer that can hunt and takes food from animals 30% faster, also have 30% more HP, and is 15% faster than a normal archer.
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UNIQUE TECH

  • Atlatl (Yes, this is common for Mesoamerican peoples): Javelins +2 of damage and +1 range.
  • Ceremony Of Huehueteotl: Torch throwing and fire arrows deals 40% more damaga to buildings.

THE ZAPOTEC

Zapotec
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People formed 5,000 years ago, starting to build cities in the end of the preclassical age, together with the Mixtecs they still exist after the fall of Tenochtitlan.
Called for the Nahua “People Of Zapote” rise and fall many times in their history. Many ignore that they made their own astronomical calendar apart from the Mayan and Mexica called Iza, in addition to ball game courts is one of the forerunners in it. Their epigraphic scripture was ancient and survived in codex of deer skin and some stones in Oaxaca. As I mention the role of women in society was in pair with the men in the mayor of cases, inclusive they take a part in politics.
In the war fear was their weapon, religious leaders and war priest wears the skin of flayed captive victims, including the faces as a mask.

About The Flag: This is apparently an official flag and I find in official and unofficial sites but never see an explanation of what it means or why they use it, maybe the references are very infrequent.

CIV BONUSES

  • Farms are 40% cheaper.
  • Units nearby temples deals +2 damage.
  • Javelin throwers +20% HP.

UNIQUE UNITS

  • Zapotec Priest: Replaces the priest, can fight and nearby enemies deals less damage.
  • Zapotec Drummer: This unit can select a song, every song inflicts a different debuff to nearby units.
  • Chinantec Spearmen: Not fully Zapotec but fight with them or the Mixtecs against other enemies. Replaces the spearmen and their melee attacks have range, bud had less armor than normal spearmen.
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    Chinantecas
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UNIQUE TECH

  • Atlatl: Javelins +2 of damage and +1 range.
  • Staggered Farms: Farms are worked 2% faster for every adjacent farm for a maximum of 16%.
  • Hybrid Fighting: Axeman Shoots a dart every 5 seconds.
    Chinantec: The Chinantec lived in the actual state of Oxaca, like the majority of Zapotecs and Mixtecs, so they could be a shared unit. Moctezuma II also had some of their spears in their personal armory but this maybe was more for symbolic purposes and no for practice, the Mexica usually demand some products they did not produce as a tribute.

Finally, to say goodbye to my speculations in America, I wanted to make my own version of a Mexica flag, I did not discredit the one that is already around the forums, but I thought that it could be even more successful with the symbols.
The Sun still be a central element but using other symbol, the Nahui Ollin represents the cosmovision of the Nahua people and the age of the fifth sun (Also Huitzilopochtli is associated with the sun and can be their symbol too, this is important because he was a central god and who end the Aztecs to rise Tenochtitlan), the center symbol in superposition represents Ometeotl, the duality father/mother of the cosmos, the duality in the balance of complementary elements is very important in Mesoamerican religions and is extrapolated in every part of their life’s. The red is for the blood, that essence they give to maintain the gods alive and the green are the feathers of Quetzalcoatl, creator of humanity, and god of civilization.

Mexica 1
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My Previous Post Of America

3 Likes
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This is an excellent compilation. Unfortunately, you’re probably right that most are too overshadowed by their neighbours. Ideally, I’d like to see 9 civilizations from the Americas.

South America:

  • Inca
  • Muisca
  • Chimu

Mesoamerica:

  • Maya
  • Aztec
  • Purépecha

North America:

  • Puebloans
  • Mississippians
  • Algonquins (essentially the “Skraelings”)

SHARED AMERICAN CIVILIZATIONS UNITS

There’s a pretty good range of units that could be shared among the Native Americans in addition to those you mentioned:

  • Atlatlist - basically your Javelin Thrower (would avoid confusion with the nonsense Malian one)
  • Canoes - Several types of canoes could be available to the various civs.
  • Battlefield Constructions - to make up for the lack of siege units (other than maybe Inca), the American factions could have additional constructions that their infantry could build.
    • Pyre - Provides a smokescreen that acts like a stealth forest and slowly damages nearby buildings
    • Mantlet - A mobile shield that infantry can attack from behind
  • Pathfinder - A scout unit that acts somewhat like light cavalry (could maybe be accompanied by a dog)
  • Macuahuitl - Man at Arms replacement for Mesoamericans
  • Maceman (or Axeman) - Man at Arms replacement for South Americans (and maybe Purépecha)
  • Tomahawk - Man at Arms replacement for North Americans
  • Slinger - Ranged unit shared among Mesoamericans and South Americans
  • Eagle Warrior - Fast moving cavalry analog for the Mesoamericans
  • Bolas Thrower - South American ranged unit that does area damage and snares cavalry
  • Staff Sling (or maybe even Traction Trebuchet) - A siege unit for the North Americans. Based on the Skraeling ballista described by the Norse. I’ve also made a suggestion for an equivalent unit in AoE3.

There are also existing units they could get with some additional flavour:

  • Trader - A pack llama for the South Americans, and a travois pulled by a dog for the others
  • Archer - Several factions could have poisoned arrows
  • Spearmen - more or less generic
  • Rams and Siege Towers - could be carried instead of rolled (probably need siege crews for this)
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Some nice ideas and a lot of effort behind it

Wanted to point out, you don’t seem to realise the market affects your opponent as well. If you buy Res at the market, your opponents prices are also increased. So this “returns to original price”, will affect everyone in an 8 man game, which doesn’t make sense balancewise

The rus golden gate is not a market. It’s a separate entity independent of the global market and thus the mechanic

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The think is I already have post for Mexica, Inca, Mayan and Purepecha. About the North American cultures, well only Misisipians already reach a suficient development to be considered in the game, and in my opinión they do not achieve it because our knoleadge about them are limited. The rise and fall before Spanish expeditions reach the Misisipi, despite this ther civilization was just starting to do what the south had been doing for centurires.

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Yeah I’ve seen those suggestions, but they still aren’t in the game. And no one’s done any suggestions for Muisca or the peoples north of Mesoamerica yet .

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Maybe some one who knows the North better than me can so it, but I dont know how to work with Nortamerican cultures in a game like AoE IV.

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Puebloans and Mississippians wouldn’t be much different from the civs you’ve put forward here. They both had massive cities full of monumental architecture and similar technologies. Algonquins would be the only one that would require a lot of additional knowledge to do justice.

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Oh, I see ¿Can you recomend some documental or book? Maybe I can make another post from them.

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Here’s my impression of the major points about Mississippians and Puebloans:

  • Their societies collapsed at about the time Europeans entered the picture so there are few primary sources on them
    • Inspiration could be taken from their successors like the Creek, Choctaw, Zuni, or Hopi
  • Much of what is know about them is from archeology
    • They have a lot of impressive and distinctive architecture and monuments so there lots to work with for landmarks
    • Their monuments would be good avenues to research for a civ concept
  • They were very proficient agriculturists
    • Maize farms could be a core feature for the civs (rice and wheat farms are already mechanically different so this could take that further)
    • Other crops like cotton, tobacco, or the 3 sisters could be featured
  • They abutted the great plains where powerful cavalry cultures formed such as the Comanches
    • They could have options in the imperial to get some powerful Plains Raider cavalry
    • It’s pretty late in the timeframe but they had horses in large quantities after the Pueblo Revolt

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Here’s what I’ve found from a quick Google search:

Mississippians:

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-hccc-worldcivilization/chapter/mississippian-culture/

Puebloans:

https://sarweb.org/hisatsinom/

They apparently had some pretty wacky warriors:

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For me it will be 4 civs:the Aztecs, Incas, Puebloans/Mississippians and the Algonquins…

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Fun fact: horses originated in North America (and might have never gone extinct, contrary to some theories)

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Well, it seems that I have to study a little and I may do one or two posts about it, yes, some of them may seem to me to fit more in aoe 4, for example if they stand out for the use of cavalry or gunpowder weapons more modern like muskets.

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I doubt it,the Native Americans civs only use cavalry and gunpowder weapons only after the Conquest of America in the XVI-XVII c.,and that is the AoE 3 timeline…

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The Inca were using cavalry and gunpowder by the 1530s. I believe the Spanish allowed the Purépechans to use cavalry shortly after their submission. The rest of the natives probably wouldn’t have gotten these things until the 1600s.

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The thik with that is, American civilizations have something special to use alternatives for their lack of cavalry and gunpowder, the use of stealth or massive spam for example. I dont like to much the idea of make them so similiar to AoE 3 mods version of those civs.

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Probably,they do that…they can do the Natives Americans use human siege weapon in castle age and captured cannons in imperial age…

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Bueno, es momento que de mi opinión. Me parece interesante las opciones para varias civ. de sur America. Por el momento me estoy concentrando en buscar info de aztecas e incas para el paralelismo entre tecnologías y unidades comunes, principalmente porque creo que son las civs. de America con mayor conocimiento para usar de moldes, y las mas probables a adaptar primero al juego.

1.- Unidades generales:

  • Cuarteles:
    1.1 Lancero.- casi todos los pueblos desarrollan lanzas, probablemente porque son un palo con alguna punta variada, el arma más simple de hacer. Sugeriría que al igual que el lancero común, mismos stats, nada sobresaliente, recuerden que no tenían hierro. Para versiones mejoradas usan las lanzas tipicas de la civ. (tepoztopilli azteca, chuqi inca).
    1.2 Axeman/Maceman.- es curioso como la mayoría de pueblos usa de arma común el mazo, claro que modificado y distinto dependiendo de la civ, igual que como lo son los tipos de espada. En el caso azteca/triple alianza, tendrían el Cuauhololli (madera → piedra → metal), en el caso inca, una Champi (normal (esferica) → mejorado (estrellada) → veterano (de cobre) → elite (tumbaga), en el caso de los Mapuche, también usaban mazas cada vez más grandes. En el caso de Chimú eran cónicas. Yo sugeriría que tuvieran 0/3 de armadura, velocidad decente y HP medio (80) suficiente para sobrevivir a los arqueros, igual ataque que el espadachín normal, pero lo compensan con ataque contundente antiarmadura (maza=contundente), no tan grande como el de la musofadi (que esta no es unidad única), pero lo suficiente para poder hacerle 70% de daño a un hombre de armas, digamos ¿+3?. Dado que no son una élite, son baratos, serian un intermedio entre el lancero y el hombre de armas, suficientemente fuertes para acabar con los arqueros, y resistir a los hombres de armas y caballeros tempranos en 2da edad. Que tal 100 F 20 W (no oro).
    1.3 Pathfinder .- me parece bien que haya un explorador a pie común. Como desventaja por ser infantería, tendrá menos vida, pero costara menos alimento (75 → 50) y los lanceros no tendran bono contra el. Personalmente me gustaría que el explorador inca sea el chasqui como unidad única (de lo que ya hay precedente en Aoe3:DE y Aoe3:WoL).

  • Cabaña Noble.- edificio para unidades de elite, la casta guerrera más fuerte, nobles de nacimiento o por meritocracia. Generalmente, “unidades únicas”, que cuestan oro por sus adornos.
    – Incas: Rinriyo/Orejon, sea con turpuna (lanza 6 metros) o Kunka Chukuna Champi (Martillo de guerra inca)
    – Aztecas: Guerrero Jaguar, Guerrero Aguila
    – Chimu: Sacerdote guerrero ( usa mazas gigantes, el macero elite chimú del AoE3:DE, no se si mejor crearlos en el templo, creo que allí tendría más sentido)
    – Mapuche: Bolas mounted warrior. Si, mapuches a caballo con ayllo(Bolas) anti-caballería.
    – Purepecha: Arquero… no se, lei que eran buenísimos, tengo que buscar más info.
    – Otros: ni idea, todavía tengo que hacer una investigación más afondo de la cultura Misisipi.

  • Galeria de tiro con arco
    – 1.4 Spear trower/lanzador de estolica.-basicamente el Javelin Thrower, pero usa un lanza javalinas. Conocido en mexico como Atlatl y en quechua como ######### Lo usaban tanto los pueblos mesoamericanos como los pueblos pre-incas, los incas no la usaban mucho, sino hasta que pelearon con los españoles y vieron su efectividad contra caballería. Al parecer los mesoamericanos la usaban como arma favorita, digo, los guerreros aguila la usaban y hasta los españoles mencionan una vez siendo atacados por una lluvia de flechas de Atlatl.
    – 1.5 Hondero/Slinger.- Me parece curioso que tanto mesoamericanos como culturas de los andes sudamericanos usaran la honda. En el caso inca fue el arma predilecta, ideal para enfrentamientos a corta distancia en la sierra.
    – 1.6 Arquero.- Aquí hay que ser aclaratorio: los incas originalmente no usaban el arco, fue cuando reclutaron tropas de la selva del norte (antisuyo) que recién los incorporaron a su ejercito. Al parecer en mesoamerica se usaba más, y según leí los purepecha se destacaban por ello.
    En mi opinión: que al igual que sucede con las 8 civ originales, que cada raza tenga su bonus como tecnología única para sus arma preferentes, los incas una tecnología para hondas, aztecas para el atlatl, y purepechas para arcos.

2.- Mecánicas:
Battlefield Constructions.- Curiosa mecánica. En teoría, los incas usaban varios trucos para sus batallas, por ejemplo Pachacutec disfrazo varias rocas como soldados (“falsas tropas”), y Manco Inca fortifico el cuzco con “hoyos anticaballería”. Según mencionas los aztecas también tenian sus propios trucos (the pyre). Como sugieres, cada raza podría ir con sus propios trucos.

3.- Tecnologías compartidas
Creo que principalmente, las tecnologías de Herrería son las que menos se comparte con la variante del viejo mundo. Si consideramos la variante Melee, ni incas ni aztecas desarrollaron “fundición de hierro”, “descarbonización de acero”, ni “acero de damasco”. Tampoco desarrollaron “flechas de acero”, pero curiosamente si desarrollaron “proyectiles balanceados”. Debido a que el uso de metales era limitado, los pueblos americanos tuvieron que desarrollar otras formas de mejorar su armamento, aquí tecnologías “comunes”.

  • Ataque melee:
    1.1-- Madera dura de batalla.- Para los pueblos nativos americanos, la mayoría de armas de cuerpo a cuerpo, sea de piedra o metal, estaba unida a un mango de madera. Esta debía ser de un material fuerte, o se quebraría luego de pocos golpes. Maderas como la Chonta en los incas, adquirida de la selva, o el roble para los aztecas eran vitales para darle mayor poder a sus armas contundentes, sobre todo garrotes como la waktana, el cuauhololli o el pomo de una maquahuitl.
    1.2-- Materiales pesados.- si bien los incas no usaron el hierro, muchas de sus armas eran contundentes y al usar metales pesados como oro o plata aumentaban el daño de sus armas. Ciertas mazas aztecas, como la Quauholōlli también se beneficiaban cuando la bola en la que termina el arma era de bronce en vez de piedra o madera. Asi también, la Huitzauhqui, era una versión más grande de la macuahuitl, causaba un daño mucho mayor.
    1.3-- Obsidiana/Tumbaga.- La obsidiana no era un metal, pero si fue un tipo de piedra volcanica extremadamente dura usada por la cultura azteca. Su fuerza era tal que en varios proyectiles de venablo usando este material fueron capaces de atravesar las corazas españolas. También se comenta que una espada azteca de este material fue capaz de matar a una yegua de un solo tajo. Los Incas al conquistar a los Chimu adquirieron a sus orfebres y tecnicas, la tumbaga fue una aleación de cobre con oro que permitía usar armas con la dureza mejor que la del cobre y el peso del oro, aumentando grandemente el poder de las armas contundentes de la nobleza y tropas elite.

  • Ataque a distancia.-
    2.1 Armas de caza mejoradas.- la mayoría de armas nativo americanas a distancia fueron una modificación de armas empleadas para la caza. Esto se cumple tanto para el arco de la selva, el atlatl y la honda andina. Cuando estas se usaban para la guerra, se usaba munición especial para humanos, puntas más afiladas o versiones del arma con mejores materiales.
    2.2 Proyectiles balanceados nativos.- se sabe que las flechas de los arqueros Antisuyo estaban bien cortadas, del mismo tamaño por flecheros especializados en fabricarlas. Los pueblos centroamericanos también diseñaron sus armas a distancia a medida, de manera que mejorara su vuelo.
    2.3 Proyectiles Gigantes.- reemplaza a #####as de Acero. Los cronistas refieren a que los nativos usaron proyectiles inmensos, en el caso de los incas, los arqueros del Antisuyo usaban flechas de hasta 2 metros para la guerra, capaces de atravesar a 2 hombres. Las piedras lanzadas por hondas aztecas podían superar los 20 cm. de diámetro, y los dardos del Atlatl también podían llegar a medir metros.

  • Armadura melee:
    3.1 Cuero reforzado (The same): Muchos escudos y armaduras tenían curo reforzado para mejorar su resistencia a armas contundentes, igual que en el viejo mundo.
    3.2 Casco aislado (The same): Tanto aztecas como incas usaban cascos aislados con algodón, y que según se narra en las crónicas, cubría casi todo el rostro.
    3.3 Herrero Maestro (The same): Tanto aztecas como incas tuvieron artesanos que diseñaron las mejores armaduras para los nobles de nacimiento y nobles de privilegio. En los inca, los nobles usaban debajo del pura pura un escapulie, una coraza y a veces hasta un escudo en la espalda para proteger la retaguardia. Los guerreros jaguar y aguila tenían debajo del traje animal bien confeccionado un escapulie de algodón, comodo para desplazarse y resistente a flechas y golpes menores.

  • Armadura a distancia:
    4.1 Escudos portatil.- escudos que pasaban por una mano, generalmente la izquierda y permitían todavía el uso de ambas manos. Ideales para proteger a tropas que normalmente debían usar ambas manos, como arqueros o lanceros, del fuego enemigo. Los usaron tanto los pueblos mesoamericanos, como las tropas incas y pre-incas.
    4.2 Camisa de Algodón/Escaupil.- armadura gruesa hecha de algodón, usada por varios ejercitos nativo americanos, la versión nativa del gambesón europeo renacentista. Se llevaba debajo del traje. Proviene del nahuatl “Ichcahuapilli”, la versión inca se llamaba "Cheqchipacha ".
    4.3 Algodon reforzado.- Los pueblos nativo americanos se esforzaron en reforzar su limitada armadura, una forma que usaban los aztecas era hecharle salmuera para endurecer el algodon. En el caso de los incas, usaron varias fajas y telas para ajustar su armadura y como protección extra. Era tan útil para bloquear proyectiles que muchos soldados españoles consideraron cambiar sus cotas de malla por estas armaduras.

  • Otras tecnoloigas
    5.1 Flechas venenosas.- arqueros ahora infligen estado envenenado. Misma tecnología Mali, compartida por Inca, Aztecas/Triple Alianza, y Purepechas.

Ideas descartadas:

  • Armas de cobre/bronce (tecnologias).- Consideremos que TODAS las civ de europa, asia y africa ya estan usando hierro o bronce para sus armas base. Si un lancero con hierro tiene 8 de ataque, y 9 cuando desarrollamos acero con fundición, ¿Por qué la versión de nativo americano tendria también 8 de ataque si esta usando un metal inferior o hasta piedra? Consideremos también el hecho de que el desarrollo de metales no tuvo una evolución común entre pueblos nativoamericanos, simplemente no lo usemos como tecnologia, los pueblos desarrollaron “Otras formas de fortalecer sus armas”. En el caso de los incas ellos fueron por el lado de “contundente”, antes que filoso, los aztecas hacían más fuerte la piedra que usaban, tallandola mejor o hasta cubriendola con resina. SIN EMBARGO: Esta idea si se puede aplicar para la evolución de las armas de ciertas tropas (normal → veterano → elite), sobre todo las incas, que pasaron de etapa de piedra → cobre → bronce — > Tumbaga (aleación de oro y cobre). Y si bien el oro era para la nobleza, los soldados “Elite” eran convertidos en “Nobleza de privilegio”, algo similar a los guerreros jaguar azteca.
  • Hombre de armas.- Que quede claro, NO EXISTE esa definición en las culturas americanas. El hombre de armas europeo-asiático medieval eran infantería o caballería con gran equipamiento, sean mercenarios o ejercito fijo, pero tenían buen equipamiento que ellos mismos compraban. En las culturas americanas nativas, la mayoría de guerras eran “trivales” y los soldados asociados a castas guerreras o reclutados por leva. Los mejores soldados por lo general estaban dentro de una casta o de nacimiento o por meritocracia, y esta misma coalición les proporcionaba mejores armaduras. Por ello creo que las tropas élites se deberían crear en un edificio aparte al cuartel, copiando el ejemplo de aoe3 (que hicieron bien).

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English versión

Well, it’s time for my opinion. I find the options for various civ interesting. from South America. At the moment I’m concentrating on searching for information on Aztecs and Incas for the parallelism between technologies and common units, mainly because I think they are the civs. of America with greater knowledge to use of molds.

I would usually say the following:

1.- General units:

  • Barracks:
    1.1 Lancer.- almost all the towns develop spears, probably because they are a stick with some varied tip, the simplest weapon to make. I would suggest just like the common spearman, same stats, nothing outstanding, remember they had no iron. For upgraded versions use the typical civ spears. (Aztec tepoztopilli, Inca chuqi).
    1.2 Axeman/Maceman.- It is curious how most towns use the mallet as a common weapon, of course modified and different depending on the civ, just as the types of sword are. In the Aztec/triple alliance case, they would have the Cuauhololli (wood → stone → metal), in the Inca case, a Champi (normal (spherical) → enhanced (starry) → veteran (copper) → elite ( tumbaga), in the case of the Mapuche, they also used bigger and bigger maces. In the case of the Chimú they were conical. I would suggest that they have 0/2 armor, decent speed and medium HP (80) enough to survive archers , the same attack as the normal swordsman, but they compensate it with a blunt anti-armor attack (mace = blunt), not as big as that of the musofadi (which is not a unique unit), but enough to be able to do 70% damage to a man-at-arms, say +3? Since they’re not elite, they’re cheap, they’d be somewhere between spearman and man-at-arms, strong enough to take down archers, and resist early men-at-arms and knights in age 2. How about 100 F 20 W (not gold).
    1.3 Pathfinder .- I think it’s good that there is a common pathfinder. As a disadvantage for being infantry, he will have less health, but will cost less food (75-> 50) and spearmen will have no bonus against him. Personally, I would like the Inca explorer to be the chasqui as a single unit (of which there is already precedent in Aoe3:DE and Aoe3:WoL).

  • Noble Hut.- building for elite units, the strongest warrior caste, nobles by birth or by ############(“Me-ri-to-cra.cy”) Generally, “unique units”, which cost gold for their decorations. It can change its name with the civ (same as University/Madrassa).
    – Incas: Rinriyo/Orejon, either with turpuna/Hatuchak Chuqi (6 meter spear) or Kunka Chu.qu.na Champi (Inca War-Hammer). Personally, I prefer the #################### (*the last weapon, i dont understand why the que-chua is censored) It would be 2 unique units either. The cavalry and cannons can either be produced in this building.
    – Aztecs: Jaguar Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Short ones (cuauhchicqueh).
    – Chimu: Machero-priest (giant maces, the elite chimu macerator from AoE3:DE)
    – Mapuche: Bolas mounted warrior. Yeah, mounted mapuches with Boleadoras, anti-cabalry.
    – Purepecha: Archer… I don’t know, I read they were great, I have to look for more info.
    – Others: No idea, I still have to do more research on Mississippi culture.

  • Archery gallery
    – 1.4 Spear trower/stolica thrower-basically the Javelin Thrower, but uses a javelin thrower. Known in Mexico as Atlatl and in Quechua as ######### It was used by both the Mesoamerican peoples and the pre-Inca peoples, the Incas did not use it much, until they fought with the Spanish and saw its effectiveness against cavalry. Apparently the Mesoamericans used it as a favorite weapon, I say, the eagle warriors used it and even the Spanish mention once being attacked by a rain of arrows from Atlatl.
    – 1.5 Slinger/Slinger.- I find it curious that both Mesoamericans and cultures of the South American Andes used the sling. In the Inca case, it was the favorite weapon, ideal for close-range confrontations in the mountains.
    – 1.6 Arquero.- Here it is necessary to clarify: the Incas originally did not use the bow, it was when they recruited troops from the northern jungle (antisuyo) that they recently incorporated them into their army. Apparently in Mesoamerica it was used more, and according to what I read, the Purepecha stood out for it.
    In my opinion: that as happens with the original 8 civ, that each race has its bonus as a unique technology for its preferred weapon, the Incas a technology for slingshots, Aztecs for the atlatl, and purepechas for bows.

2.- Mechanics:
Battlefield Constructions.- Curious mechanics. In theory, the Incas used various tricks for their battles, for example Pachacutec disguised several rocks as soldiers (“false troops”), and Manco Inca fortified Cuzco with “anti-cavalry holes”. As you mention the Aztecs also had their own tricks (the pyre). As you suggest, each breed could come up with their own tricks.

3.- Shared technologies
I think mainly, the Blacksmithing technologies are the least shared with the old world variant. If we consider the Melee variant, neither the Incas nor the Aztecs developed “iron casting”, “steel decarbonization”, nor “Damascus steel”. They also did not develop “steel arrows”, but interestingly they did develop “balanced projectiles”. Because the use of metals was limited, the American peoples had to develop other ways to improve their weaponry, here “common” technologies.

  • Melee attack:
    1.1-- Battle hardwood.- For Native American peoples, most melee weapons, whether made of stone or metal, were attached to a wooden handle. This had to be made of a strong material, or it would break after a few hits. Woods such as Chonta for the Incas, acquired from the jungle, or oak for the Aztecs, were vital to give greater power to their blunt weapons, especially clubs such as the waktana, the cuauhololli or the pommel of a maquahuitl.
    1.2-- Heavy materials.- Although the Incas did not use iron, many of their weapons were blunt and by using heavy metals such as gold or silver they increased the damage of their weapons. Certain Aztec maces, such as the Quauholōlli, also benefited when the ball the weapon ended in was made of bronze instead of stone or wood. Also, the Huitzauhqui, a larger version of the macuahuitl, caused much greater damage.
    1.3-- Obsidian/Tumbaga.- Obsidian was not a metal, but it was a type of extremely hard volcanic stone used by the Aztec culture. Its strength was such that several spear projectiles using this material were able to pierce the Spanish armor. It is also said that an Aztec sword made of this material was capable of killing a mare with a single blow. The Incas, when conquering the Chimu, acquired their goldsmiths and techniques, the tumbaga was an alloy of copper with gold that allowed the use of weapons with a better hardness than that of copper and the weight of gold, greatly increasing the power of blunt weapons. the nobility and elite troops.

  • Ranged attack.-
    2.1 Improved Hunting Weapons.- Most Native American ranged weapons were a modification of weapons used for hunting. This is true for both the jungle bow, the atlatl and the Andean sling. When these were used for warfare, special human ammunition, sharper points, or better material versions of the weapon were used.
    2.2 Native balanced projectiles.- It is known that the Antisuyu archers’ arrows were well cut to the same size by archers specialized in making them. The Central American peoples also designed their ranged weapons to measure, in a way that would improve their flight.
    2.3 Giant Projectiles.- replaces Steel Arrows. The chroniclers refer to the fact that the natives used immense projectiles, in the case of the Incas, the Antisuyo archers used arrows of up to 2 meters for war, capable of piercing 2 men. The stones launched by Aztec slings could exceed 20 cm. in diameter, and the Atlatl’s darts could also reach meters.

  • Melee Armor:
    3.1 Reinforced Leather (The same): Many shields and armor had reinforced leather to improve their resistance to blunt force weapons, just like in the old world.
    3.2 Isolated helmet (The same): Both Aztecs and Incas used cotton-insulated helmets, which, according to the chronicles, covered almost the entire face.
    3.3 Master Blacksmith (The same): Both Aztecs and Incas had artisans who designed the best armor for nobles by birth and nobles of privilege. In the Inca, the nobles used a scapulie, a cuirass and sometimes even a shield on the back to protect the rearguard under the pura pura. The jaguar and eagle warriors wore a cotton escapulie under their well-made animal suit, comfortable to move around in and resistant to arrows and minor blows.

  • Ranged Armor:
    4.1 Portable Shields.- Shields that passed through one hand, generally the left, and still allowed the use of both hands. Ideal for protecting troops that normally had to use both hands, such as archers or spearmen, from enemy fire. They were used by both the Mesoamerican peoples, as well as the Inca and pre-Inca troops.
    4.2 Cotton Shirt/Escaupil.- thick armor made of cotton, worn by various Native American armies, the native version of the Renaissance European gambeson. It was worn under the suit. It comes from the Nahuatl “Ichcahuapilli”, the Inca version was called “Cheqchipacha”.
    4.3 Reinforced cotton.- Native American peoples made an effort to reinforce their limited armor, one way the Aztecs used was to brine it to harden the cotton. In the case of the Incas, they used various belts and fabrics to adjust their armor and as extra protection. It was so useful for blocking projectiles that many Spanish soldiers considered exchanging their chain mail for this armor.

  • Another tecnologies:
    5.1 Poison arrows.- Archers now have poison attack, the same technology of Malians. Shared with Inca, Purepecha, and TripleAliance/Aztecs.

Ideas discarded:

  • Copper/bronze weapons (technologies).- Consider that ALL civs in Europe, Asia and Africa are already using iron or bronze for their base weapons. If a spearman with iron has 8 attack, and 9 when we research steel with smelting, why would the native american version also have 8 attack if he’s using an inferior metal or even stone? Let’s also consider the fact that the development of metals did not have a common evolution among Native American peoples, let’s just not use it as technology, the peoples developed “Other ways to strengthen their weapons”. In the case of the Incas they went for the “blunt” side, rather than sharp, the Aztecs made the stone they used stronger, carving it better or even covering it with resin. HOWEVER: This idea can be applied to the evolution of the weapons of certain troops (normal → veteran → elite), especially the Incas, who went from stone stage → copper → bronze — > Tumbaga (alloy of gold and copper). And while gold was for the nobility, the “Elite” soldiers were made into “Privilege Nobility”, similar to the Aztec jaguar warriors.
  • Man-at-arms.- Let it be clear, that definition DOES NOT EXIST in American cultures. Medieval European-Asian men-at-arms were heavily equipped infantry or cavalry, whether mercenary or fixed army, but they had good equipment that they bought themselves. In Native American cultures, most warfare was “trival” and soldiers associated with warrior castes or conscripted. The best soldiers were usually within a caste or by birth or by ############ and this same coalition provided them with better armor. For this reason I think that the elite troops should be created in a separate building to the barracks, copying the example of aoe3 (which they did well).
1 Like
20

Me alegra ver a alguien igual de entusiaste del tema que ademas profundiza en cosas que yo no, el aspecto de las tecnologías compartidas me parece indiscutible y una buena forma de balancear, el explorador también me gusta.

1 Like
21

Sí,yo pienso que deberían copiar a sus contrapartes de AoE 3,las civs allí están muy bien retratadas…obviamente no tendrían maquinaria de asedio…los aztecas tendrían el caballero cráneo y los incas el maceman…luego los Misisipi usarían las unidades a pie de los lakotas…