It does reduce japan early game strength significantly.
It means the Japanese player will have to gather 106 wood for a shrine if he wants to go for port consulate and shrine boom.
Their age up time will be delayed as a result of that and their whole build will be slower, giving other civs a very large window to hurt them.
The Japanese player will have to think twice before going for greedy play otherwise they will die to a rush or a timing.
I am wondering if you have actually dealt with Japan.
Japan allies with Portugal and receives the first heavenly kami card, at which time the price of the shrine is only 75w. Also, the first wonder is also 680f.
This is the early build of the Japanese shrine boom, and almost all Japanese players start this way.
Even if Japan starts like this, you can use one card to make Ashigaru with 27 damage.
do you still think this can be solved with just the start box change?
Well it s 20% more expensive, so it should be stronger. Dont think the Ashigaru is the problem, there are a number of ways to counterplay ashigarus
It’s true that they have to be stronger because ashigaru is expensive, but the bonuses they receive are so easy and numerous.
The AOE series is a game that combines several units. No one use only Ashigaru. The bonus also applies to other units.
Japan has never received a nerf for multiple bonuses, except that the Shogun’s HP has been slightly reduced. Developers have to nerf their bonuses.
-10% cost and damage and a speed nerf to 4.25 for ashy. Not to make them weaker on a coat effective basis but worse per pop.
Something similar maybe for yumis.
Also damyios not being able to queue 10 unit batches anymore, only building.
Lasty introduce age 4 tech that let’s shrine spawn a special deer with only 75 food if hunted every 3 minutes until the shrine teaches it maximim. This is an late game eco buff to compensate the unit Pop efficieny nerfs.
I would love to see this, I makes me tilt when I lose my hunta and can’t replace them EVER. Can deal with permanent loss. Somiliar when I lose my factory I mostly just instant want to resign.
Yes, I have dealt with japan.
I have played both against and as japan and on both re and DE version.
I used to think that japan was unbeatable until I actually started using them to learn their weakneses, and they do have very exploitable weaknesses.
And guess what my wining rate against the japan has increased a lot after I actually learned how to play the civ.
Also there is a considerable difference when you play japan with the extra wood start then when you play then with an extra food or gold.
The fact that you have to chop 106 slow gathering wood slows your age up significantly even if your age up is cheaper also if you don’t play it properly you will get housed and delay your age up even further.
That means later age up, later batches and more time to other civs to hurt japan.
I don’t know how you dealt with Japan.
You don’t know what upgrades the Golden Pavilion offers, and you don’t know that Heavenly Kami card and the Portuguese alliance will be formed simultaneously too.
Wasn’t that Japan trying to build only shrines without training units?
I’m speaking of my opinion by releasing screenshots with accurate numbers, but your opinions are confusing and I don’t know. Please give an accurate explanation of what strategy Japan you are facing and how you can beat Japan.
A replay or screenshot of your play is probably the best answer.
I have dealt with this exactly build.
Portuguese consulate+heavenly kami card.
As I have said, I have learned how to play the civ, I know the upgrade cards and what the golden pavilion does.
Their early game is slow and they struggle to make units early and the way you play depends on what civ you play. But generally you want to control the map and apply constant pressure.
You can find several recorded games here
In there you can find several recorded games showing that japan can be beaten.
Also here is another link of hazza playing vs miggo and note that hazza is playing dutch which is another civ that has a very weak early game too and he is still able to apply pressure early.
I get that the civ is frustrating to play against, but there are plenty of evidence that the civ can be beaten. So instead of crying on the forums you could learn how to play against them.
Watch the recorded games, take notes, learn from them because many of them are played by people that know more about the game than both me and you together.
In fact why don’t you give a go at learning how to play the civ yourself? And see for yourself how OP or not OP they are?
Hazza is the top player to win the league a few days ago.
Don’t speak on behalf of Hazza, show your match.
Japan, whether you think so or not, is controversial for many people.
Just as you brought your opinions about Japan from ESO, I also brought my opinions about Japan from ESO.
I understand your frustration with the civ.
I agree that right now they are a bit too strong and they could use a bit of a nerf.
But that doesn’t mean the civ is unbeatable and this is why I suggested the crate change, from the point of view of someone who knows how to play as japan i know how much of a difference it makes.
My suggestion for you is to actually learn how to play the civ. Your opinion might change or it might stay the same, there are other civs right now that do really well vs japan, but you will see things with a different perspective once you understand how the civ works.
Also check the recorded games from esoc and learn how people play against them.
The info is there
Don’t evade words with weird answers.
You do not deserve to evaluate my skills.
You’re ignoring my skills without revealing your own play or showing ELO.
I certainly gave evidence that they were stronger, but you didn’t.
It’s clear that you’re mainly playing Japan or you’ve easily won against weak Japan
It seems that you also like to asume things about people.
Anyway, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
In my opinion, you are the only one who claims that.
I will continue to write a thread about how OP Japan is.
If you want to argue no, you can show your play to beat Japan nicely or write an experiment thread with me.
Or maybe you are Hazza.
Sure man, writte your threads
Even though we disagree on some things I do like your work and research, I know that took a lot of time and effort to put on.
I am not gonna argue anymore because that clearly won’t go anywhere, but I hope you get from the devs what you are looking for!
The problem of these civs are boom power.
Their military are already strong, they also have strong boom power.
Most of the top players don’t think japan is the best civ (none of them in fact), but it can be annoying to play against them.
That thread’s first Riply said, “seems reasonable imo. I would just put japan also on tier A, and change both lakota and aztec to C.”
The second Riply said “japan tier S+ everything.”
Looking at this thread, many people are feeling irritated with Japan. Even if the top-level players don’t appreciate Japan, the vast majority of people think Japan is unfair.
But the developers don’t seem to know this. Perhaps they are ignoring it.
What’s your point lol, you read the first 2 response from the topic and none of them come from a top player.
It’s like you’re saying you can’t talk about balance unless you’re the best player.
I signed up for ESO and read all the replies on the day the thread was created. Even that thread has my reply too.
I hope you don’t think I didn’t care about anything else just because I mentioned the first two replies.
What I want to say is simple.
Japan is an OP and needs to be nerfed. I can’t believe that Japan has never received an important nerf from any of the patches that have been around.
I have clearly assumed a variety of situations and showed the ability of Japan to have.
Still, there are some who say that it is because of their ability that they cannot beat Japan.
Japan has been avoiding nerfs for a ridiculous reason that it is weak. That resulted in meeting Japan in most matches. I have played numerous matches against Japan and have only met countries like Aztec or Russia a few times.
Aztecs and Russia clearly have strong early attacks and can easily get victory in match, so why are they harder to meet than Japan?