Walls and keeps need to be nerfed HARD

If you listen to the phrases of Zun Tzu (art of war), you will understand the risks of besieging a city, so the game must balance defenses for the benefit of playability, not realism. May the walls be strong in imperial not before


the static wars of the first world war, not even “Company of Heroes” has made a game of that time

Lucifron complains about the game’s defenses, I’m sorry but it’s in Spanish


Vortix: I would like to nerf walls and keeps, but that’s something I like, personally

I’m sorry, it’s in Spanish

Do you understand spanish and if yes can you say what Lucifron is talking about more precisely? But yeah, it’s no surprise they do want to nerf walls and keeps, both slow the game down and do not go along well with esports. On a potential different game mode for more casual playstyles walls and keeps could stay as they are or even be stronger, whatever the community prefers.

For me it is totally boring, as Vortix says, with bottlenecks between a wall opening, accumulating resources, endless.
A few slight changes can make a game of a casual player, which lasts 60 minutes, if it is reduced to 50 minutes, it does not seem drastic to me, I ask for a little condescension on your part too, for the love of God

Is it a good idea to please 5% for E-Sports,
but alienate 90% of RTS people who do actually play the game the way it is?
This way of “E-Sport” did kill too many RTS franchises.

Maybe you are not familiar with RTS gaming, but thats always backfires.
Age of empires is kind of the last bastion RTS people have.


point out, where are the extreme proposals that we are making, if you can, good luck, I myself have said that the majority of the community is casual

Why not try cater to both, esports and casual communities, with different game modes?

Look what happened by Dawn of War 3, Red Alert 3 and Empire Earth 3.
Maybe instead of ruin the gameplay experience for everybody with E-Sport ambitions.
Rather make a proper RTS first, than add a game mode with E-Sport mechanics.

+1 Age of Empires 4 has mod tool, people can anytime make an E-Sport mod themself.


mentions something that is obvious, and mentions a fact that many of us already know, but does not point out the supposed extreme proposals, great, thank you very much


I don’t know why I am bothering to even write this, because you will ignore this entirely and keep on pretending that Walls, Keeps are a problem because you have a personal issue with the AOE format; but, the video you are linking is refering to tournament rules placed there to limit events going overtime. This should not matter for people who enjoy playing the game. People who get angry at others using these features in ladder take themselves too serious if they expect others to follow imaginary rules made up for watchability reasons.

If they want to practice to become a professional player with these rules, they are free to do so in custom games, with friends or with a community dedicated to that. That isn’t the game however.

Using this as a reason or some kind of evidence would be circular logic. They have different rules because of watchability and not gameplay experience. The game does not have to mimic tournament rules.

Here is hoping you don’t keep spamming every vaguely related thread with the same handful of streamer’s opinions as well as pictures of lengthy games, as “proof” that the game is indeed long. What you never recognize, despite all the replies to you, is that this is AOE. The game does not advertise itself as being a sub-30 minute experience.


the title is to attract attention, the problem is when you see that a professional takes a long time to beat a non-professional, a professional player shouldn’t take more than 35 minutes to beat a non-professional, it’s not common but the two costs are significant, evidence that there is a problem, writing that in a title is very long.
I am also condescending and I do not make extreme proposals, I myself have mentioned that the majority are casual players, with slight changes, that a 60-minute game would be reduced to 50 minutes, the casual games will continue to be long

some professional games take a long time to win over non-professionals

Static defenses are very strong for the cost and micro management is greatly reduced in late game. They have to improve the game at sea and more issues.

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Again, I feel like you’re not really addressing what people bring up about your posts.

I will suggest something, and I hope you read this because it should be exactly what you would want.

Late game units should be stronger, instead of making defensive structures weaker.

The game is overly “safe” towards the late game. Players have too many Villagers, Town Centers, too many infinite sources of resources. It is very hard to win by shutting all of it down, and this type of economy allows players to spam the trinity of Horsemen, Archer and Spearman for a very long time.

The reason longer games becomes a slog, is because that is what you have already been doing since Feudal Age. So what is interesting about continuing that exact same Rock-Paper-Scissor gameplay into Castle, Imperial, except, you are prevented from ending the game with those units because of Keeps and Walls? It isn’t interesting. However, the answer is not to make them more powerful by nerfing defensive structures. The answer is instead to make units that are meant to deal with those, more powerful.

It is simple. Make the game more interesting the further you progress into it.

Consider how in SC1, you get access to a lot of unique and fun units the further you progress into a game. In AOE4, you kind of don’t. What units are exciting to use late game exactly? What units best represent the last age of the game? Catle Age Trebuchets are kind of weak and slow. The same goes for Bombards, but both can easily be denied with Springals or other units. The late game is designed in a way that makes the lengthy games a slog, where you are doing the exact same thing as Age 2, with the exception of some Springalds.
What reason is there for these imperial siege units to be so weak, slow and uninteresting?

So my solution for this is the following;

Instead of nerfing defensive structures so you can overwhelm your enemy with Horsemen (whoo so fun??), make for example Trebuchets, Bombards, Imperial units in general a lot stronger. Imagine for instance that Bombards did AOE damage; while that sounds broken, why shouldn’t it be? It is the late game and the game should be a lot more hectic with how much economies scale at that point.

This is at a point in the game where you have likely already been playing for at least 20 minutes. If anything, the game should be a lot more volatile, with powerful units that can deal some real damage if ignored.
Current late game is instead a lot more boring because players have created many villagers, TCs, and set up many infinitely generating resources that makes it really difficult to meaningfully disrupt any of it. And so, it becomes incredibly difficult to shutdown a player by just winning battles. Meanwhile, Imperial units don’t really do much, and are very easy to shut down making the experience rather uninteresting, as you have to resort to spamming trash units just like in Feudal.

To summarize, I would like to see late game units be way more powerful and fun. Not only would it make it more exciting to create a powerful imperial unit, like for example a Bombard that does more damage, moves faster, does splash damage, it would contribute to shorter late game battles as trash units would be less effective, and make it easier to close out games through the momentum of powerful units.

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the trebuvhet has a low dps while the bombard does a lot of damage but is useful in a very late moment, in my opinion, and now it is vulnerable to spearmen and men-at-arms, before the siege was only vulnerable to cavalry, but no way , we will have to adapt to the low hp of the siege

This is ridiculous to even discuss I feel.

You like to all in and walls get in the way of your play style, therefore you want them removed. No.

You have a blacksmith, get the siege building upgrade and build a ram or two. You will smash stone walls like they are paper. 3-4 rams obliterate keeps too. And if that takes you so long to do that, that the other player can boom himself into an easy win during that time, then you just need to get better.

Thats it.

Enough ridiculous nerf requests please.


It’s easy to write whatever, please attach high-level gameplay videos that show that

Its also easy to write selfish balance requests that serve ones own interests only.

Doesn’t mean it should be taken seriously at any level.


point out you, the request, extremist and selfish, good luck

I say:

Allow Stonewalls and Keeps to be Capturable.

Give MaA and Rams a special ability to breech and take over a defensive structure. (Excluding landmarks)

This way castle dropping and spamming will be double-edged.

Functions like converting. Garrisoned units are killed.
Gate houses work the same, and capture of a gatehouse, converts all Neutral wall section to the opponent.

Wall sections are made Neutral when enemies are standing ontop of wall. Wall sections are converted when a gatehouse is captured or if the wall has no gatehouse, and is uncontested, also converte after a few seconds.
Wall-Towers prevents Neutralisation/convertion.
This will give some added purpose to Siege Towers, and buildings proper defenses requires more dedication and resources in form that making stone walls towers almost mandatory.

This adds to function that prevents simply just walling off a section of the map and leave it unattended.
Stone Walls towers becomes a nescessity to prevent the wall becoming Neutral from a siege tower dropping units ontop of the wall. (Thus converting the wall and allowing them to build a gatehouse, and turn the wall against the defender).