With the archers already being faster +2 is just unnecesary. +1 and faster speed is really good
It might not matter a lot with the balance discussion, but someone just make a ton of icons for potential new civs, among them there also is one for Venice, so you can go check it out.
I imagined red, but yet itās still incredible well designed.
Guess venice went to aoe3 side.
5 Likes
I just saw itā¦
Although, that are the Italians, with Venice as a home cityā¦
It is kind of weirdā¦ but I guess that Venice was the most powerful italian state and the one that stayed indipendent for the mostā¦
Probably you can revolt into Italy with Rome as HC.
1 Like
this went to dravidians
kinda went to dravidians aswell
What does this remind me tooā¦ ??? 
1 Like
Mehā¦ at least I was useful.
Iām still happy and proud even if I helped a bit, or even if mine was luck and I just anticipated something that was to come.
Also, there already is a whole new unique civ design with original bonuses 
(although Iāll admit that the old design will still stay in my heartā¦)
2 Likes
Iāll post another design for the venetians civilization. I know that I already have like 10 of them, but I donāt careā¦ I do one every time Iām bored, and Iām keeping reading book on the history of Venice, so every new design is a bit more accurate.
This one in particular has come to my mind while I was talking with the fellow venetians enjoyer @IBMichele117, so it would be a waste to not posting it.
Bonus:
- Get +50 gold each time a technology is researched (including age ups)
- Archery range units are 5/10% faster in feudal/castle age.
- Galley-line units are 15% faster in feudal.
- Docks, blacksmiths, markets and monasteries are built in 80% less time.
TB: - Guilds is 80% cheaper and available in the feudal age.
Unique Technologies:
III - Schole: villagers passively generate +5% gold when dropping resources on buildings nearby monasteries.
IV - Schiavona: infantry units have +30 HP
.
Unique Units:
- Stradiots:
Light and fast cavalry with a slow RoF but that can stun enemy units (a stunned energy cannot move or attack). It cost only gold.
- Galeass:
Heavy ships with high HP but short range spread damage, that can protect nearby ships all around it by absorbing part of the damage (like an hussite wagon, but all around it).
Tech Tree:
Barracks: FU champ, halb and condo
Ranges: FU arbs, skirms and HC missing CA and PT
Stables: paladin, hussar and bloodlines missing
Siege: missing siege ram and heavy scorps
Dock: heavy demo ships missing
Blacksmith: FU
University: FU
Monastery: heresy missing and atonement
Castle: FU
General Eco: gold shaft mining missing
I would also like to take inspiration from the aoe3 Italians and give them a building like the lombard, but with a bit tweaked effect. Iāll leave here a random idea that I had about how it could be transposed into aoe2.
- Mint: building that allows to invest resources and get 1.5 value in gold with a trickle over time.
Cost: 100 wood 100 stone +100 gold for each mint already built
Example: you invest 100 food, you get 150 gold with 1 gold per second.
I conclude saying that I also have uploaded the venetians design for aoe4, so here is the link if anyone might be interested.
2 Likes
Albanian cavalry unit and Venetian warship - good choice for Venetians civ
Catalans & Venetians civs - Capitans of Mediterranean sea DLC (with Mediterranean architecture set split into Apennine set and Iberian set).
1 Like
Isnāt that too much gold? i would put reduce it a 5%. In Dark is not very good but in Castle and Imperial means too much gold, if we make church, universities, blacksmiths.
Like. Unique because any civ had it. Maybe add a 15% on Imperial
Like, but i would glad to see it also on fire ships.
Good one, and haves synergies with the first bonus.
Isnāt the civ getting too much gold? With techs giving them gold and villagers producing and faster built markets they would be insane making gold.
Copy of Vikings, but Vikings have them free, so im not convenced.
Seems fine.
Unique and good, like.
I think that you would leave bloodllines or cav would be ussless. Other seems fine.
Again more gold? this is no needed. The idea is creative but more gold for the civ is no need.
What does āGuildsā?
Well designed civ, but i think that you exceded a bit with gold production. The civ would e unbeatable on water maps and their spammed archers always would be a problem. Congrats from my part, @DoctBaghi.
1 Like
Its the same as how Aztecs and Burmese get extra attack for infantry but Aztecs get a better effect. Its fine
2 Likes
Eh seems okay
Good
Remove this, its the same as the Berber bonus but weaker
I would just remove this or make it the TB, since its pretty irrelevant
A lot of civs dont have guilds though
Way too niche
Its just a Turtle Ship or Thirisadai then. You surely can do a bit better than that
What is the siege workshop? Other than that, it kind of looks like a more open Italian tech tree
Also full university is the Korean thing
Fine for Champions, prob OP for halbs
1 Like
Maybe I wasnāt clear, itās not a +50% gold, itās a static +50 gold.
Yes, but compare it to the upfront cost for that gold.
For example, the university only in castle age gives you +350 gold with all its castle age techs, but that in exchange for an upfront cost of about of 2700 total resources, and most of those techs arenāt even that good or useful.
Looks more closely to a single techs, taking for example ballistics (another uni castle age tech) you would get 50 gold after an upfront cost of 475 resources, thatās about like a 10% discount, which isnāt really a discount since you still need to pay the full cost of the tech, meaning that you canāt like research it sooner.
The bonus in my opinion the bonus is good in dark-feudal age, when the upfront cost for the techs is between 50 and 200 resources, which means that you get back a value between 25% and even 100% in some cases (like loom). Also, most of those are techs that youāll anyway.
But in castle age and forward, the techs start getting more and more expensive, and +50 gold always helps, but itās even more meaninglessā¦
Just to trow in some numbers, with a standard FC you get 200 gold, the exact amount to click to castle, with ann archer rush youāll get about 350 gold, more if you also research mining and cav/infantry techs, with a scout rush is about 300 gold, again depending on what other techs you add. The main advantage is that for a period of time you donāt need to have between the 3 and 6 vills on gold, and that it matters less if you have a fron gold. You can use the extra vills to get food and wood for more techs, or to mine stone to get more TCs, or just mine stone as usual and abuse the market with the extra gold.
I would personally wait on that to avoid making it snowball too hard.
I consider it, but then I feared that it would make them too versitileā¦
Consider that the techs gives back the static +50 gold, while this one would give you a +5% gold.
This, on a FU farmer would mean that it generate about 1 gold with every trip (which should be about 20 food), and the mill/TC needs to have a monastery nearby. And this on a FU vill, in all other cases it take more than 1 trip to generate just 1 gold (the game should count at least up to 2 zeros behind the point).
But vikings donāt have neither halbs nor condos (at least usuallyā¦). Also, vikings champ will have 82 HP, venetians champ would have 100 HP.
Mmm true, but the civ already have a good FC, and bloodlines would basically have a 50 gold discount on it, and it would be easy to research it with the gold that feudal age generates.
It reduces the cost of the market fee from 30% to 15%. Itās basically a worse saracens bonus (they get 5%) but for the whole team.
True, it was originally a simple 15%, but then I thought of starting lowerā¦
The point is, itās true that itās worse version of the berbers, but it also synergies very well with the other bonuses.
I added because I felt that they missed a bit of help in some cases. Being able to get out fishing ships, monks to grab relics, grabbing military upgrades or starting trading faster never hurts in my opinion. This bonus mainly compliments the other 2 and help abusing the gold bonus.
True, but itās also common that some TB doesnāt affects other civ, like the franks TB is useless for meso civs.
I would introduce it with 5%, then buff the percentage if needed. You can build churches near all principal resources nodes, they are even built faster, so placing one near your TC or a mining camp wouldnāt hurt. Alternatively, the tech could also make churches gathering points.
This one would work more like an hussite wagon, with the same principle, but it would protect ships all around it, not necessarily the ones behind.
It also have an organ gun like attack, forgot to write itā¦
Forgot about that too, they lack siege onager and heavy scorps, then the rest if FU.
As for the Italians, the venetians have way better infantry, but worse cav.
I believe that getting all techs from a building isnāt really a āthingā, not one that should determine the uniqueness of a civ at leastā¦ I believe that the korean uni thing is more of a meme than anything elseā¦
They have pretty bad cav, hussars included, and the cost of the UT would compensate for the power that it gives.
Alternatively, it can be changed into +20 for halbs and +30 for champs.
This is the reasoning behind the +50 gold bonus, and all other bonuses that complement it. The bonus at a first glance might not seem that great, but itās actually really good. Basically all dark and feudal age techs that cost gold pay themselves off, and for all the others itās like having an indirect discount.
This is right away helpful for a fast castle, since you start with 100 gold, and spend 50g to get loom, which is refunded a little bit later. Then you get 50g from reaching feudal age, and another 50g from getting double bit axe, for 200 gold in total that you need to get to castle.
But in my opinion it synergies even better with an archer rush. Think about it, you reach feudal age, and you have 150 gold, those are automatically 2 archers, and the gold cost of fletching, which then also gives back the gold for another archer. Then you can also get the archer armor tech or horse collar, which cost only food and wood and gives you the gold for another 2 archers, and you can get various techs that requires only food or wood and that gives you back gold.
Basically, with a standard build you get the the gold for about 7 archers (depending if you drush), which are also faster, at the same time you can focus all your vills on wood and food and either transition to scouts (which their upgrades cost only food and gives you +100 gold) or going for castle, by abusing your market with guilds. Then in castle the bonus still help, even if on a smaller scale.
On water is also good, each tech gives you the gold for 1 and a half galley, or a fire galley. Here again you can put all your vills on food and wood, get some fire ships to protect your fish and get to castle without gathering gold or spending wood for a mining camp. Or you can mass galleys, which again benefit from fletching that basically cost no gold.
A bonus just canr be an objectively worse cƱversion of other bonus. Just replace it
Its just way too niche imo
Yeah but ideally most TBs should be useful for all civs
Just dont do an aura effect with a church. Its just way too awkward
Its still practicaly the same as a Turtle Ship/Thirisadai
And the Organ gun type attack is also somethingbthe Thirisadai does
But at that point you have a civ that does everything better than Italians outside hussars (who can be replaced by the Stradiot either way) and hand cannons. Imo, you should remove bloodlines and maybe even replace the Stradiot to make them.more diferent
I think it is. You cant give other civ FU trash like Spanish nor full siege workshop like Ethiopians so just remove arrowslits or something
Its still too good
1 Like
The bonus itself is worse, but the civ overall is better.
You donāt need to gather gold for going into war galleys since each techs is a galley and a half, and those then are better to micro.
It could be bumped up to 15% though from feudal, I really donāt knowā¦
Itās unlikely that youāll play a game when you donāt build at least a market a monastery and a blacksmith. It a bonus to integrate the +50 gold for each tech.
A more serious bonus would make the civ too OP.
Itās quite uncommon in my opinion. Ideally, yes, all TB should be always helpful, but in reality itās not that wayā¦
It would work similarly to a folwark. The folwark gather from farm that are at least 1 tile close, the gather building (TC, mill, lumber/mining camp, dock or market) should similarly be close to the monastery, maybe you could do it 2/3 tiles. Itās not properly an area of effect.
Yes, but itās historically accurateā¦
I guess that it could have a ramming attack too, but that itās a bit hard to implementā¦ I prefer the hussite wagon of the seaā¦
Cavalry in general is worse, BL isnāt included, so even knights are worse from castle age. Italians do have good knights.
But mainly the tech tree was improvisedā¦ I didnāt carefully plan all interactions, I just wanted to work first around the bonusesā¦
Itās a civ that get gold from techs, and the venetians controlled one of the most ancient universities in world, so I believe they are fine as they are, and the FU uni is justified.
Mmmā¦ Iāll probably nerf their stable then, probably remove the hussar upgrade.
1 Like
I just think that it is way too weird when it could just be a passive bonus without needing the church (its only 175 wood). They dont need something like the Folwark when they need to wait until castle age to get the tech, and they already have good monks thanks to the gold bonus. Also, I would prefer +50 gold for every tech instead of a percentage. If too good you can just make it scale through the ages (+20/40/60/80 at d/f/c/i age maybe?)
I just dont think its needed. It really doesnt do much
Historically accurate ā good
Thats more interesting, it could be a sea Ratha. Hussite wagon ability isnt what makes it unique and this unit is already too close to the other two heavy naval UUs. The ram ability is better
History isnt everything. Them losing Arrowslits would barely affect them while respecting the Korean niche.
Thats not an excuse for it either imo.
1 Like
Ok, those are 2 different bonuses.
The venetians get a static +50 gold after researching any techs, including the age ups. This is a bonus that starts from the age 1 and works with every techs.
Then there is an UT, that on top of that (since in castle age +50 gold for each techs becomes less strong) have all vills generate gold when the gathering point is built nearby a monastery. Basically, you get 1 gold for each trip with a FU vill, but you need a castle and to research an UT for that.
But it doesnāt hurt eitherā¦ Iāll leave it there until I found something more usefulā¦
My original option was:
- TC and dock techs are researched in 50/60% less time.
This was mainly so that the player can easily squeeze in the town watch and patrol without idling the TC for a full vill, and by so getting the extra gold, and then to give them a power spike in early castle and imp.
The problem was that it was a bit, similar to porto bonus, and that a faster WB and HC might be too strong for them.
Yeah but 2 problemsā¦
- the ram isnāt easy in introduce in my opinionā¦
- The hussite wagon ability was to help venetians to compete against late game vikings and Italians that can just spam galleaons.
Maybe it could be a bit of bothā¦
I donāt really see it as a nicheā¦ on the other hand, they wouldnāt be useless if they would lose arrowslits or the craneā¦ still, this is a detail borderline insignificant, so yeahā¦
No just kidding, my goal was more about testing the civ bonus that revolves around getting +50 gold for each techs, and with faster archers and galleys, then integrate by the monastery UT.
All other bonuses and UT revolve around it, I donāt care much about it, and they could easily be changed, my goal was to test the first and main bonus to see if it had potential.
even if i think it could be overused with some exploits by the players i think its fine, you need to invest before (so lose resources) and then you will have this āprizeā of +50 gold. My concern is a naked fast castle, but at the end ethiopians could do this and basically no one on open maps do thatā¦ So i think its fine
yep, love it. like always it could be be increased or decreased in the patch
this is basically the berber bonus but only for ships. in the game some similar bonusses (like burmese +1 attack every age or aztecs behind a UT /you need to spend res for them)) 2 civilization could have very similar bonuses, but with the differenze that one of them is locked behind a UT or it will cost somethingā¦
for a naval bonus that i scrapped because it was a bit āstrangeā i propose you this:
your docks have a āsquareā line like the folwark, and inside this line your fishing ships have the ability to build walls on water.
the lines around the docks could be easly increased, to prevent galleon to hit the docks, or maybe if you want this like a easly a bonus if you lose the water in feudal you could easly produce your fleet behind walls and gain some time, the enemy can not hit directly the dock and you have more time to build your fleet.
i personally like this second option, and for balancing reason the walls needs to be stronger and capable to stop feudal navy for a bit, but easly destroyed by late castle age and imperial ships (without have more range in the folwark, so the player will negate the range of castle age galley, tthis will be painful and not good for the game if the enem y can not destroyy your docks).
Personally i will make them cost something like 25-30 wood and 5 stone, (the stone to prevent the player at the same time to build a stack of wall) and the gate 50 wood and 10 stone. with this huge cost in feudal and in water maps, you will be forced to decide if you wanna invest in ships of if you prefer to stay defensive and easily gain enough time fo make a fast castle on watere, still have your docks and have a castle age fleet against feudal army.
the purpose here is to have the docks inaccessible in feudal (if you do not destroy the walls) but in castle age after the galley upgrade and the blacksmith the docks could be edstroyed with the range, but fireships needs always to destroy the walls. you need to give some stats to the walls (im not the best with naval balancing, and i do not know if you liek the idea). i think that the stats on this walls should not incerase while aging up, but maybe the fishing ships could have the āupgradeā if you select them.
this could also be useful for the fish traps in late game if the enempy has not range shipsā¦
thats only an idea, but i do not know how balaced could be
(the photo is like the editor with a folwark under a dock 
like i said to you in my civ concept with this bonuses or some civs will not have aces to this because not all the civs have access to guilds (like meso civs with franks or mongols team bonuses, because they have not cavs) or you need anoter team bonuses
nothing to say here
i like this because it fit eh civ and is āmore for lessā, faster constucted but for less buildings.
i do not like this, you will end with 25 monasteries in the maps and other than that they will be uselessā¦ i think it could be good but if you give this ability to the castles, since the castles are built alongside key resources anywayā¦ And personally i will remove this ability from the farms, but only on natural resouces
i think this will be broken considering that you will have FU blacksmith and halbsā¦ is like viking bonuses but behind a cost and i could pass on that, but strong infantry civs with bonus on them lack halbs/blacksmith imp tech (vikings, goths, aztecsā¦). the only one are japs, but other than infantry they have basically standard archers and almost standard cavā¦
You could give them a +25% faster attack, like japs but locked behid a tachā¦ i really do not know here, i have no ideas, i need to thinkā¦
i like both, but the fact that a unit can not move and attack it will basically win 1v1 against everything in the game, like if he hit a persian elefant and after the first attack the enemy can not move or attack it will just slowly die, and your UU will be full health.
what to you think about the ability to slow the rate of fire (attack rate) of the enemy unit? because i think if im against this UU 1 i will never engage with anything melee and 2 the fact thet if im distracted in the eco and my units attack this and i can not even move them is frustratingā¦
i think that adding the lombard in aoe 2 is not the correct thing to do. In AoEIII every civ has gold long term, with bonuses and also with x: whales that give you gold instead of food. and not aoe2 civs
i think this will be broken because AoE2 is not a game with build limit on the buildings, with this is basicaly if you have a tecnically infinite amount off relics and gold, since the gold per second stacks and the relics generate less gold than this building.
Personally i think that the unique buildings are something nice to add to the civilizations. But again i have no ideasā¦
Ethiopians can do that if they skip loom. Venetians could do it with loom.
Anyway a pure naked FC is still risky, you do at least a Drush, and venetians to di a drush needs at least to mine a bit if gold, or to research horse collar and town watch.
Yeah but what it the purpose, galleys will still be able to target units inside or the dock, I donāt see the purpose.
Monasteries are way more spammable than castles, with castles it wouldnāt be doable.
You balance the strength of the UT by giving them an high cost, like logistica, or druzina.
having the docks up is a difference, in a normal game after you won the water, you go to destroy the docks, but with this you have the possibility to slow the enemy, and initially in my idea, inside that quare your units and lly units heal themself for free (like bengalis bonuses but with +20 HP min instead of +15 only. with this this ability your docks will be also strategically built on the coast (like the venetians did on the adtiatic). this square it could be helpful after you lose your start 5-6 navy against the enemy, you will build inside the docks the next ships, and the enemy needs to destoy your walls first and next also your docks, you will lose in this time the protection of your walls and when the enemy is about to destoy your docks you will let out your ships, and you will be able to regain water. initially this bonus was together with a faster working docks (33%) exept for fishing ships, to help the venetians produce the fleet faster.
but this was only an ideaā¦
for balancing reasons i thought that you could not have impenetrable docksā¦ but in this idea there will be the imp UT that increses the range of the square (from 6 to 9), and the fishing ships will be able to upgrade the walls in imperial age. i scrapped for the possibility to wall the maps with the fishing ships and i thin k it will need way to thinking about balancingā¦
This square could even only have the ability to heal both ships and docks (also ally ships) by itself like +20 fo all the ships and +300 HP min for docksā¦ also only with this ability it will slow the enemy ships to destoy the docks, and this could be a standard civ bonus
with this you remove the possibility to wall and even to the headache of the balancingā¦ but both docks and your/ally ships can heal. so if you docks stategic area of teh maps and the fleet stay here during an attack they will be difficult to sink (all this was to give the venetians a strong water bonuses and for give them some sort of ādocks stategic pointsā like they did in the adriatic sea
exacly for this thing, you will build monasteries everywhere, and monasteries are not that useful, you train monks and teh tecnologies. is not like a barrack/stable/archeryrange that train units and by the end of the game you will have like 9-12 of themā¦ castle on the other hand are used to protect strategic resources, and i think is a nice addition the fact that generate additional resources, you also have the range of the castle that could be increased. The resources inside that range that produce 5% of gold on top ( like a medieval lord who sends vills a job on his land and he then sells the goods and earns gold, or simply because he do not have to pay the vills because they are in his land and they need to do the free days of work, and the castle is the house of the lord, so every resouces on the range will have on top this 5% of gold
usualy in a game at least 3-4 castle are a must for protect the resources anyway and train trebs/UU/UT, i see this as a plus on them, and very good, also there is an investiment of 650 stone, is not like the fact that you can build monastery all around teh mapā¦ it will lose some of the charm
ok it could work for a late tech like druzina, also because infantry is usually see more (exept with drushes and on closed maps) in late imp or post imp
1 Like