Civilization is a group of nations (in the Age of Empires series).
This is a bit of a can of worms, buuut⊠Macedonian language is more related to Bulgarian than serbocroatian. Along with Bulgarians, they are the only Slavs that donât use noun cases.
@ TouchierFiend53: In the Middle Ages specifically, Slavic peoples were all those who spoke mutually intelligible languages. Our self-name is based on that - Slovo means âwordâ and SlOvaks, SlOvenes, are example of that-- Slavs (for the most part) refer to themselves broadly as âSlovyaneâ (with different emphasis on diff sounds, but pretty universally SLO)-- because we were all âpeople of the wordâ- i.e., we all understood each other. Thatâs why the Slavic exonym for Germans was âNimcyâ- literally meaning âthe mute onesââi.e, someone who could not âspeak the wordâ.
Concept of nations didnât really come into the picture until there were REALLY firm religious divisions in play, on top of dynastic histories. Thereâs a reason Pan-slavism was so strong in Austria-Hungary for a while, and its collapse heralded a creation of 2 Slavic federations. Trying to pigeonhole modern nations into this medieval period is all kinds of faulty, imho.
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Everything I read above is beautiful, but I have not yet understood why the Venetians are not included among the various civilizations. As a Venetian as I am, I feel offended that there are Italians and not Venetians since the greatness of the Serenissima Republic of Venice at that time did not reach by anyone, and also because in the era in which the game is set the Italians did not even exist. Okay, no one will miss me for sure, but thatâs one of the reasons I stopped playing it, for the record.
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As a Bulgrian myself its hard to find this post anything but insulting. I try to attribute it to limited English skills and certain lack of knowledge but still thre are few bits there that are just lol.
First of there is a difference between Turkish and much broader Turkic . In the game there are several civs you could trace Turkic origins: Cumans, Tatars, Turks. You could also speak of Bulghars but not Bulgarians. What is common for these Turkic peoples in the Middle Ages is certain vocal similarity but mainly semi/nomadic lifestyle. That is why even the Turks in th game have good hussar/cavalry archer line similar to tatars, mongols, cumans, huns, magyars ( all with some nomadic origins) While the gunpowder side is certainly inspired by the Seljuk/Ottoman turks who yo could name Turkish. But by the time those came to existence the so called Turkic peoples have all gone to different direction in their development.
The music in the game is written by Vitalis Elrich a (German I think) who has studied different regions to come up with the tunes. The music there is no evidence for any sort of influence for several reasons. The main Instruments used are gayda ( type of bagpipe) and kaval (type of flute) that are used accross the Balkan region. Including Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, Serbia, Turkey. Ofc it matches with the former Ottoman Empire but the Music in nature is not Turkish but Balkan as these peoples living together for centuries fused some of their musical and cultural traditions. Still eevry region has its specifications and I have to say Elrich did a good job and it sounds Bulgarian. So much so when I heard it for the first time I though its an actual tune they are using. Anyway I dare you go to any of these countries: Serbia, Greece, Bulgaria and tell the people their national music is âundoubtedly very Turkishâ. Further despite the music sounds Balkan (Bulgarian) it would have been more common for 17/19th century rathar than the actual period of the game and the Medieval Bulgarian states until 14th century.
What do you mean by âobnoxious Bulgariansâ. I guess you refer to the civ in the game? Despite I dont know what do you find obnoxious exactly compared to any other civ. In any case I hope you refer to the civ in the game not the people.
I understand you want to make a case that Bulgarians are not quite the same as the rest of South Slavs. In a way you could say that but its a big stretch. The roles Bughars had is similr to what Vikings/ Varyags had in Russia for forming a state among majority of slav population. Indeed as military tradition and ruling class Bulghars influenced the First Bulgarian Empire but till around the start of 10th Century it is essencially Slav state. With adopting Christianity aiming at nulifying the differences between the ethnic groups and the development of literature during the so called Golden Age ( late 9th early 10th) . This literature was the state and official church language of the First Bulgarian Empire and was Slavic. Mostly know as Church Slavonic (here known as Old Bulgarian). The devopment of this literature what was later done again during the Second Bulgarian Empire exptreamly influenced most of the South and East âOrthodoxâ slavs. You could make an argument that not only Bulgarians but also Serbs are represented by the civ as by the 12th century Serbs hardly had independent state being vassal to Bysantium, Hungary or Bulgaria for the vast majority of time. While at the same time they used the same literature/language and also were Orthodox slavs. All in all First and Second Bulgarian Empires are pivital for the development of the slavs especially on the Balkans during the Middle Ages.
Quite frankly I dont mind if we have Serbs, Croats, Poles and Bohemians in the game. But I certianly have issue with some of the stetaments made in this post.
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Couldnât we have a European regional unit, the Mounetd Crossbowman. Removing the CA for all European civs except Goths and MagyarsâŠa slower moving but strong mounted cavalry unit with some armour.
It seems you have got completely lost in last post exchanges⊠Let me make it clear.
These sentences are put together into one paragraph. Usually any paragraph is dedicated to just one topic. In this case the topic is âBohemians or/and Poles or Wendsâ. In this context the last sentence can be rewritten into âI am against any kind of Wendish umbrella civ; I am either for Bohemians or Poles or Bohemians+Poles as 2 civsâ. (In other posts above I also wrote ârather no Bohemians than Wendsâ. In my opinion my position is crystal clearâŠ)
If you want to speak about other civs, good, go on. I dont care.
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When selecting civis there should be actual unique units not used already so it adds more variation to the game.we have enough and more foot units with axes already.
Bohemians obviously stand out with the hussite war wagon or militia with flails for uuâs.
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The Venetians were a very important country in Europe - the capital of European trade. But unfortunately the multiplicity of civilization cannot be allowed. In my opinion, the Sicilians were necessary in this game - at least there is finally a division into Northern Italians and Sicilians. I think thatâs enough. Venice would be cooler in AoE 3 - Venice is mostly associated with the Renaissance. But you have to agree that Venice was different from the rest of Northern Italians.
I am very sorry for that word. I had no bad intention. Anyway, you can see it in the rest of this sentence.
*The Bulgarians present in the game perfectly show this fusion of Turkish and Slavic nations.
@mentalkud13 @Rorarimbo3774
Bulgarians and Macedonians have a common origin - connection Bulgars and Slavs.
Macedonians were Bulgar-Slavs living in Greece.
It is not Turkish. As I explained earlier it is not much different from Vikings/Varyags involvement in the creation of Kievan Rus. Pls check those words Turkic =/= Turkish and what âobnoxiousâ means.
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The word appeared through the translator - I wrote the text in English and then added it to it to correct any potential errors. âObnoxiousâ came up because the translator thought it was a synonym for âbaseâ. When I wrote this I meant:
The base Bulgarians perfectly show this fusion of Turkish and Slavic peoples.
As you can see, it was better to enter your original text instead of adding it to the translator.
I like Bulgarians - I even have one in my extended family. It was simply in the early Middle Ages that they created a unique and distinct culture - they distinguished themselves from the rest of the South Slavs.
Bulgarians are a unique nation. He deserves his own representation - he is already in this game, after all. It differs from the rest of the South Slavs, but they are. Despite the fact that they have a different national ethnos. The Bulgarians in this game simply represent the Bulgarians - not all South Slavs, and it would be nice to see them.
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@MUTYLATOR5553 Fair enough man. Misunderstandings happen. Enjoy the game and lets see what devs will bring to us in form of new civs in the future.
Cheers 
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Thanks bro Once again, I am so sorry for this incident. (now I know that the translator is not suitable for text correction 
)
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I actually suggested there here several times, and even suggested a civilization design of my own made for a potential future DLC.
Still, the chances of actually see them in the game are low, but as a fellow venetians myself, I would really like to see them as a civ with a campaign dedicated to them.
The Venetians were to appear in AoE3 in a way. While being the civilization of the Italians. Unfortunately, Italians are cut content.
Italians
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An Italian civilization was planned, with Florence as its Home City.
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It featured subclasses based on city-states such as Genoa, Venezia, and Milano with their own unique bonuses and units.
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Italian units were mostly âmedievalâ compared to other civilizations, much like the Ottomans and Spanish.
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The Italians wouldâve been the supremacy equivalent (along with the Spanish) of the Knights of St. John, much like how the John Black Mercenaries are based on the Germans, and the United States is based on the British.
Planned units:
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Architect unit, a type of a unique Settler.
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Merchant unit, a second type of a unique Settler.
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Elmeti as their Heavy Cavalry unit, replacing the generic unnamed Heavy Cavalry.
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General âBombard Cannonâ artillery units wouldâve appeared, likely instead of Falconets and Mortars. These would later become the Liâl Bombard in The WarChiefs.
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Likely have used Hoop Throwers instead of Grenadiers.
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Considering that Genoa was intended to appear as a subclass, itâs likely a unique Crossbowman called the Genoese Crossbowman wouldâve been featured. A similar unit would later appear as an Italian unit in Age of Empires II HD: The Forgotten.
Iâm so sorry. I got the topic wrong 
Yeah that was a suggestion for AoE3, and it regarded the Italians while during the italian unification, with piedmont-sardinia as the starting state, and Turin as the home city.
But during that time a venetian Civ doesnât make too much sense, but during the time frame of aoe2, venetians played a key role in a lot of important events.
This campaign would be a really cool part of the Eastern European DLC.
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Honestly (in my opinion) Bulgarians shouldnt be in the game. They are an infantry siege and cavalry siege just like Slavs. They have bad archers just like slavs. They have a heavy cavalry UU that its weaker against projectiles just like slavs. They have a great boom just like slavs. They even save on infantry techs just like Slavs. They lack paladin but still go for cavalry a lot thanks to a powerful bonus just like Slavs.
I like how they are rn as a civ and all but honestly I think that adding Bulgarians was quite pointless if the only thing that makes them diferent to Slavs is that they get Kreposts and great hussars instead of faster farming and good monks. At least in the case of Portuguese (that werent necesary either) they managed to make them really diferent despite them being historicaly more or less similar to Spanish while having a lot of cultural ties.