I’ve read a few comments here saying they’ll buy the DLC anyway, but mostly people have those opinions on Reddit. But it’s to be expected, since it’s Reddit…
If you enter the subreddit, 90% of the posts are about Hidden Cup, but there are zero (0) posts complaining about this scam DLC. And most users there say they don’t care that the content is already free, they’ll but it anyway because they didn’t know those escenarios existed (???)
You’re right in part that some people do not really understand how much of a chore can be to create campaigns that complex like the ones of philtydelphia and make everything work. I even got insulted in comments by people who lose their patience after two tries, this is the point at which one can feel entitled I guess…
But it was one player suggesting me to open a patreon, very willing to support me, so there is someone at least and I’m grateful for that.
As I said on steam, this aspect annoys me. (While I understand IF the content was changed/updated and permission was given. which I believe it was. It was. That is fine.) Although, this is how I feel about it:
UGC/Mods should ALWAYS be free. (Unless, permission is given by the author(s) to sell it.) This should include the company/party that is trying to sell it. (Even though I know most companies in their TOS usually take/own the rights to all UGC. I hate this rule.) It should be a two way street. Not a one way.
edit: As for how they want to be compensated, that is entirely up to the author. (although, ideally, it should be free whenever possible since it usually is free in the first place.) HOWEVER, if actual company work is involved, I understand this reason to sell it for money. (But, I dislike it.)
edit: As for donations/tips, I guess that is fine? (shrugs) But, I personally do not do it. (at least, not right now anyway.)
Well said!
This DLC needs a Petition to be removed!
Companies always find new ways to steal you with dlcs…
It’s not even campaign DLC but scenarios you can get for free from workshop??? damn, man.
Well at least the game still rocks eh ? 
But now they will be atleast voice acted and not silent, but still 13 is too much for that, 5 would be more understandable.
True, but you can find voiced custom campaigns as well from the workshop, some of them very professionally made (like apranik)
I think this could’ve gone better had MS announced it to be an “advanced package”. The author did those for free earlier right? So just make it about $5 and ask to “support/donate to the work” I believe people will understand. It’s just they’re acting like this is a never-to-be-seen-before that makes me frustrated.
Yes, in another post I said that of the 19,14 are workshop scenarios…the only new ones are Charlemagne (768) (although I think it is the Saxon Revolt or similar), Robert (921), Otto (936), Fetih (1453) and N0bun4g4 (1551)…
At least he (I assume?) gets a bi-weekly paycheck to make and update his scenarios/maps, and gets to have pro treatment upgrades on his stuff. Please link to your mods/maps so we can hear the professional voice acting and pro music you put in yours, with the list of hundreds of bugs you fix. How much do you charge for your mods/maps on Patreon? How much do you make per month and year? Enough to support yourself and/or your family?
Thank him by paying for his maps on Steam so he can stay employed by MS maybe is another possible angle for this. Just because he (I assume?) get’s a bi-weekly paycheck from MS and his maps got professional voice acting, professional music, and hundred(s) of bugs fixed, etc. he’s not worthy of your money all the sudden and you would prefer he loses his job and supports himself through Patreon instead? Interesting angle for sure. I doubt the pro voice actors, pro musicians, and pro devs would want to volunteer their services for whatever would come thru to him w/ Patreon. How much would he get from Patreon, do you think? $100, maybe? Or is it more like $10K or $20K? I really don’t know.
And some people aren’t big fans of unprofessional voice actors recorded on mediocre $10 Logitech mics, as well as mediocre music, both of which frequently come with free community-made, unofficial mods (in gaming, generally speaking).
When AoE DLC comes out I don’t like or felt lied to (“We’ll have great DLC coming your way next year that you’ll want to buy!” … only to get yet more civs I don’t want), I just don’t buy it… or wait until it goes on Steam Summer or Winter sales when it is like 75% off or something. Which has happened a fair amount of times
Interesting angle yours as well. It is like you’re suggesting everything that there is to a campaign is “professional” voice acting and music (?) I make my own music and thought of implementing it but never felt like that’s the point of the campaign, more an embellishment.
I believe in creativity rather than technicalities which I think it’s something Microsoft and other big corps are often short of and passion rather than fake enthusiasm like the one at the announcement of this thing.
Then if you want to reduce art to a job ok but that’s even more sad, even if it’s true everyone needs money.
Indeed I don’t understand the point of your last questions… Are you suggesting that since Microsoft do it for big money and not as an hobby then it’s wrong to sabotage them because people work there? I “ask” (it’s not I ask since the content is free) the standard 3$ which I think it’s literally nothing for the time you need to create all the stuff alone. Indeed the only point you may make is that I’m not investing my time very smartly…
So no I can’t support neither myself nor my family and I hate myself for that yes. But Microsoft is good if they can get away with what they’re doing I guess, just don’t call it art please.
The “please link to your mods so we can hear the professional voice acting etc” is so silly honestly… If you want there are free mods with what you’re asking (Manu la capuche is often cited), I don’t do that but that’s like asking “link your mods so we can see the neat font you use for slides” wow that’s something worth the price.
Everyone brings something to the table, voice acting is not everything and if you ask me it’s not even important to decide if something is good or not, it’s just a plus, more sauce in your dish but where’s the actual dish?
No, not really. I’m suggesting the new DLC has pro voices, pro music, hundreds of bugs fixed, QoL improvements, re-balances, and 5 brand new scenarios (undoubtedly with all the above) - and all that comes with a cost.
There’s a lot to like and love in a campaign, scenario, or game mod. Good voice acting and music is an embellishment, yes, but could be an integral component if done very well… and good talent isn’t always cheap. On the other hand, bad voice acting and music, and/or the use of bad recording equipment and mixing, can be annoying and a detriment.
Trust me, I’ve been disappointed by a good number of AAA or big studio games over the years… and I know what several of the factors are that lead to carbon copy AAA games and lack of creativity in AAA, just as you do. I fail to see, though, how adding pro voice acting and music is an unnecessary, non-creative technicality embellishment, apparently wrought from an evil corporate juggernaut who refuses to express enthusiasm and creative passion toward the product because they’re a big corporate empire.
Personally, good quality voice acting is very important to me. Music, though, I usually turn it down quite a bit, so it’s not as important. Bad voice acting in mods can take me out of the immersive experience, even if everything else (graphics, design, etc.) is well-crafted by the author.
AoE’s voice acting usually feels a bit over-the-top and campy to me, but it’s well done for what it is. I’ve always felt it’s AoE’s style, and has a certain charm to it. I’ve wished for it to feel more serious somehow, but it’s okay… it still feels professional. I haven’t played any fan-created campaigns/scenarios to know how good the voice acting is, tbh, so I can’t comment on what’s out there.
I think the only mods I have played are a couple by Filthydelphia’s and they seemed fine (if there was voice acting in them)
Not at all. I think artists usually love being creative… and if they can earn a living it at it or get a regular paycheck, then that’s pretty great, imo
I felt folks were insinuating that content creators earning $20 or $100 per month through Patreon for their mods is better and more noble than them releasing them through official channels and getting a regular paycheck from Microsoft. I realize the modding community acts with much altruism, contributing many great things to the community at large, usually/often for free! But I also recognize official DLCs / Mods (why the forum filter originally made that be “#########” I have no clue.) often bring a higher tier of quality, as will probably be the case with V&V… at least with voice acting and music and in probably more ways.
Seemed like you were saying 'if you release for free or through Patreon for cheap then you are good and noble, but if you release from a corporation for a little higher charge and earn a bi-weekly paycheck then you (or just the company?) is bad.' Just trying to understand how that works
No. It’s hard to keep track at this point, but I think I was suggesting it’s odd to me that you’re saying if an artist releases their stuff for free or through Patreon then they are noble and should be supported… even though they may only make $25 or $100 in a month (or in a year). But if they release them from a corporation after receiving a bi-weekly paycheck and adding professional level updates/content then the efforts are evil and shouldn’t be supported. That’s just what it seemed you were saying, I could be wrong.
If it was just releasing the previously released free scenarios “as is”, then sure, $3 (or free) makes sense. But this is 14 previously free scenarios + 5 brand new ones, all with professional voice acting and music added, hundreds of bug fixes, QoL improvements and whatever else. (I’ll try to stop saying that, as I’m starting to sound like their Marketing department at this point.) Are you saying that should still be $3 (or free)? Sure, maybe if they all volunteered their time for free in their spare time to make this stuff, then sure. But MS probably paid some pro people to make this happen, people who do some of this stuff for a living, so $3 (or free) seems a little harder for me to relate. It’s okay, no need to clarify… my brain is finding it hard to keep track of all this as it is, and I think I understand the main points already.
I get the argument of how this DLC seems to pale in comparison to the size and scope of past DLC for the price. I can’t counter that very well. I just know that here we are… DLC made by Filthydelphia is coming. If you don’t think what you’re getting is worth your hard-earned money and is not art, then don’t buy the DLC this time around, or wait to see if the price comes down someday
I love this analogy
The main dish is most important, of course. But, yes, I think the sauce can be a really nice added touch 
Today, I thought that historical scenarios for the Byzantine will finally be integrated, and it was nice. Same for the Slavic one.
No no there’s a misunderstanding. I’m not against big corporations ideologically otherwise I would be an hypocrite to just have bought this game from Microsoft. I’m liberal but that doesn’t always mean I support capitalism all the time, I support it when there’s quality and passion in it.
There’s nothing wrong with making money, if I set up a patreon it means I’m asking for them in some way.
I just think Microsoft is big enough to support itself and continue to pay its employees while maintaining a certain standard of quality. An independent modder doesn’t have not even an ounce of all of this and still there are independent mods given for free that I think are genuinely better than some of the things Microsoft is putting out recently.
You may think that’s people wasting their time, yeah probably since no one can alone compete on the same market of Microsoft (and even here I could say this is not fair competition but it would get too political so let’s ignore this point) but at the same time consumers could realise with time, if Microsoft products keep getting worse and worse, that there are equal if not better “products” (part of the charm is that they’re technically not products but expressions of genuine passion because done for nothing, it’s the difference between a cake made by your lover or one you buy in a shop) given for free outside the main market and this could become a problem in the far future for Microsoft.
You see what I mean? It’s not I’m against Microsoft, I’m saying Microsoft is being shortsighted and the cause of its own downfall. By taking mods and selling them, what is the message they’re sending?
One day players could just say “am I dumb? Why couldn’t I just play the mod for free or for 3$ at best?” To not count the support you would give to someone who may need it more than a millionaire corporation.
Some YouTube channels and indie modders are already willing to compete/boycott this by showing what is the “alternative scene”, showing scenarios and creators who are less known and don’t ask that much and still arguably give the same or even better quality than the official content does (some official campaigns keep getting worse while custom ones keep getting better, even on the side of embellishments you mentioned, some are already indistinguishable, just go read YouTube comments under certain playtgroughs like Ornlu).
So mine is not a moralistic point (support the poor and good indie modders against evil corp buahah) but I think an economical, almost factual one.
Oh don’t tell me about that lol. They take ages to correct bugs that I report them on the forum while making my scenarios… And they’re a big corp with thousands of employees I imagine.
I’m right now working on all my campaigns to fix what I’ve been reported and many other modders keep them updated at least monthly. And we’re a one person corp that works FOR FREE.
Actually I’m the only one I’ve seen having a patreon because in my wildest dreams I would like to make a living out of this but of course I don’t live with 3$ a month and I’m a failure to anyone but I won’t go in the private.
Anyway I reply to my few players asap and correct bugs that are reported to me monthly. I guess this is the advantage of being indie.
It would be yes 
That said this is personal since age modding is just the last of many of my artistic pursuits gone to waste (economically) because of “technicalities”. No one doubt my passion usually but I’m starting to feel like those tech skills I’m lacking in others’ opinions are an excuse to explain why I’m being left out.
Anyway yeah of course quality voice acting can be cool, most mods don’t have it (like mine) and others use AI which I personally don’t like using (for ideological reasons this time) but I must admit it’s getting better and almost could fool you being human (try Aegidius campaign).
What I’m saying is that a quality of a campaign can’t be decided based on that or on technicalities. Yes a campaign must be fun and work correctly but an artistic project has something more to it imo. It’s hard to point it out but I think it’s decisive even if this may be subjective (maybe not quite since a true artistic campaign like I consider Jadwiga is generally very well received).
I mean, what are we talking about then?
If you didn’t play any mods apart from philtydelphia (which are good but all official at this point) you don’t know how good they can be.
Try Julius Caesar and king Edward by basedteuton, Mehmed, Nevsky and aegidius by Manu, catscientist catalogue, before Attila, Justinian, Gupta dynasty, mines as well (eheh), even some Chinese ones are good despite the bad English and a bit of a grindy gameplay…
Yes there are less good ones like you have less interesting official campaigns but what can you ask for free by a one person corp?
Maybe the problem is that most players still don’t play custom campaigns otherwise you would see how good some of them are and compare them yourself with this new DLC and its price and draw more appropriate conclusions, even if of course it’s your taste in the end.
I have a lot of thoughts and opinions. I never said they were good ones or based on personal experiences, hahaha. However, I have played a lot of game mods, in general, for a variety of other games. (But also mods within AoE… just not campaign ones.) So, from that perspective, that is the experience I draw from 
And I’ve heard a lot of questionable voice acting and an array of voice-recording equipment used in those mods… for better or worse… usually with a great difference from just one character to the next within the same mod because voices are being recorded in different homes. That’s awesome in its own right, and is kind of charming it it’s own way. But it’s often a stark difference in quality compared to pro voices/music being recorded at the same studio, or with consistent levels of recording quality and equalizing with pro equipment available to studios and their budgets.
That’s awesome. Thanks for the recommendations! I haven’t done much in main campaigns either… but I’m hoping V&V will open my eyes much more to this, where mods will be bigger priority in future. It’s nice to have some nice mods to consider if/when that time comes, so I appreciate this
Did you know Filthydelphia posted this here a couple years ago? A couple of these are what I played so far of his:
Aside from that, I remember trying Attila the Hun and Joan of Arc, but never got too far in them. I enjoyed certain aspect of them, but Skirmish matches have sucked up all my AoE time over the years, lol
For now, I will wait to see how V&V goes before going into more campaign/scenario/mod stuff. And even that will be difficult, because Baldur’s Gate 3 is taking up a lot of my free gaming time at the moment
Sounds like youv’e been busy! That’s quite a contribution to do mods for the game. I have a feeling it’s not easy, quick, or simple work, and draws on your individual creativity. So that’s great! I hope Patreon and the Indie route prove nicely successful for you!
On the topic of voice acting, the game is supported in 10 different languages, voice actors are not cheap, (ten different) recording studios are neither.
(However, I am curious how much different there is between the Spanish Spanish recordings and Latin American Spanish recordings, same thing for Chinese, either way 8 set of voice actors and studios is still not cheap)
I would not be surprised that voice acting is the most expensive part of making any Age II DLC.
The designer of Jadwiga campaign, Lord Basse has mentioned that they have a word limit for the voice actors in the official campaigns, he mentioned it somewhere in his behind the scenes series.
Still, I feel that the 13 $/€ dlc is 3$/€ too much. Especially now that they have risen the price of the default civ dlc with Mountain Royals and probably future civs.
It would have been logical to me if a “campaign dlc” with 3 campaign of 5 scenarios would have been 10$/€.
for 10$ I expect 15 new campaign missions + 2 civs.
for 7$ I expect 15 new campaign missions.
for 5$ I am willing to buy 5 new missions and 14 reworked ones, if they significantly differ from the free version (not just new voice acting, but actual gameplay changes)
Nice to see Simplified Chinese on the list of languages – can we also get it added as a civ, please?