AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Ottoman Empire

Since most of players only play one or two civs, there is no need for new civs. At least in multiplayer competitive games.

That being rather presumtious.

Just because a group of the playerbase sticks to two civs. We should just ditch any future civ expansions for the future?

heck, since majority is playing only French and English.
Why don’t we just shave off the other Civ’s so we can focus on the balance between those two for achieving balance for MP competitive play.

This does sound rather rude of me, but it’s not a valid excuse.

AoE2 has a handful of more Civilizations and yet manage to have a competitive play scenary.

I don’t see why shouldn’t add more Civilization in the future.

Not everything should be about catering towards the Competative play. Nor needs to be perfectly balanced.
Even BeastyQT himself say so!

And among the top player, They play all the Civ’s to their strength and weaknesses.
it makes picking Civilizations more strategic.

Oh, It’s french pass. I know my opponent is very strong with Abbasid on that map. So I’m gonna put a bad on abbasid for this round.
I see he banned my HRE, so I’m gonna pick China for this map as I am strongest with them.

You can just take a look on other competitive games as well.
Good example being LoL and DOTA.

They are still adding new “heroes” constantly. This + new skins is what keeps their playerbase healthy and long running.
Sometimes the new heroes are Unbalanced, but over time they get polished and integrated just as any of the other hero’s in the rooster you can choose between.

imagine how immensely boring game such as those would be if you only had 8 characters to choose from.

Great thing about Age of Empires, is that it isn’t fantasy.
It caters towards history. And regardless who one is, people would love and favor playing a Civilization that resonates best with them,

I see a lot of Turks would absolutely love playing a Turkic based civ.
be it Ottomans, Seljuks or Oghuz.

Me having Thai heritage would love to see a South East asian civ.

And the massive amount of weebs would go HAM for a Japanese civ.

I dunno man, I see nothing but positivity for adding more civilization over time.

Sure, they should just completely screw the balance and throw it out of the window.

Just like my Civilization concept, they need to be planned carefully and try to the best of their abilities to integrate them with the current balance.

heck even now with the current civs, not everything is balanced. And issue of Balance is a perpetual thing that will go into eternity.

As long as something isn’t to weak or to strong, and has their special strength they can play upon. I don’t see why not.

Having few Civ’s will just make the game Stagnant and repetitive. As it isn’t close being this already.
With majority doing the same ol tactic.
Or constantly encountering French or English.

It’s like everytime I meet someone play an Unusual civ such as Abbasid or Dheli, even China sometimes, I can’t help but to feel estathic finally coming across someone playing a different civ using different tactics and builds.

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heck, since majority is playing only French and English.
Why don’t we just shave off the other Civ’s so we can focus on the balance between those two for achieving balance for MP competitive play.

There is a third option. No new civs and all developments go to gameplay and good UI interface. And these two are what AOE4 is most lack of.

Not everything should be about catering towards the Competative play.

True, I have no problem with new civs if they don’t add it to the quick match or ranking. If you want have fun with new civs, have it yourself with AI or compaign.

And among the top player, They play all the Civ’s to their strength and weaknesses

They are forced to play all civs because of tournament rules. If you remember when AOE4 just releases, most of top players tend to focus on few civs, just like progammer in every successful rts game. Even for MOBA game like DOTA2, players tend to play heros with specific style.

You can just take a look on other competitive games as well.
Good example being LoL and DOTA.

LoL and DOTA are MOBA games where 5v5 is most popular. And in tournament, only 5v5 is played. And for rts game, such team games are pretty rare.

imagine how immensely boring game such as those would be if you only had 8 characters to choose from.

SC2/SC only has 3 characters and they are greatest RTS in history ever. And even the whole country (Korea) once fall in love with a game only with 3 characters. Why is that? WC3 has 4 and never changed that.

I see a lot of Turks would absolutely love playing a Turkic based civ.

Come on, man. This is just a game. Maybe you should put nationalism somewhere else? I’m Chinese and would be really glad if they replace China with Turks by just adjusting the names.

I dunno man, I see nothing but positivity for adding more civilization over time.

For RTS game, gameplay is everything, much much more important than fancy new civs. If game is unbalanced, it seems fine in tournament since they have all those stupid civ banning rules. But for normal vast players, game could be unbearable because of that.

Having few Civ’s will just make the game Stagnant and repetitive.

Not true. For example, sc/sc2/wc3. And the reason is this:
Progamers, who can focus on one race, always come up with some brilliant strategies from time to time. And meta of gameplay keeps evolving every year even without any change from the game. The best example is SC. The game is so good and game looks different every year without any significant balance change. SC2 is the same case but with balance change from year to year. All of these is due to the small number of civs and it’s easy for balance team to make changes without breaking the game completely. And every civ can get those big changes but at the same time no civ is overbuffed. Could you do this for AOE2? It’s even difficult for them to dream about this.

Great idea!.. if you want the game DEAD.
Why not keep only English (wasn’t even an empire) and French then?
This has to be one of the most un-AoE comments I’ve seen so far.

This is the Age of Empires forum and I’m sure a lot of people here strongly disagree with that. I certainly very, very much do.

What nationalism? He’s Norwegian and I’m Estonian.
Every civ is valuable in this game, we like them all equally because this is Age of Empires, it’s not just an empty quick-finger robot e-sport.
China and Turks are galaxies away in lifestyle, history, looks, architecture, everything, that’s why we want both.
So why would you call China “Turks”? This kills everything AoE ever stood for.
We might as well just go play SC instead.

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Here is the thing with development process.

The guys designing the UI are not the same guys who work in 3D modelling, Storytelling, networking or even Core Game Engine.

Remember. Relic and certainly Microsoft is not a Indie game developter, as much as we someone would love to call it at times of frustration.

They can work on a New Civ paralell to fixing and adressing issues with the game.

I dont know if poeple even realise how many Industries Work.

I myself work for a Major European ISP provider. The team that runs the maintanance is completely different from the team that works on Projects.

You have 1 team that goes out and build new virgin infrastructure.

And then you have another team that runs maintanance on the infrastructure that already been built.
Much of these work comes doing “bug” fixes of the new network and as well, Building network to pockets within the infrastructure. That the Project team skipped over due to various reasons.

Most industries work in a similar fashion, and game developtment wouldnt be far to off. As online games stemt just Make n Forget. Like in the early days or akin to movie industry.

This is not SC2/WC3.
If you want to play RTS catering to the holy trinity of balance.
Then play those games! Age of Empires have never and hopefully never will be like that.

There are so many out the RTS out there with more than 3 factions.
COH2 has 6 factions! 3 of then being later DLC addition.

Total War games have multiple factions! All depending on the game. Yet those have thriving online community as well as tournaments.

One does not need to stop new content.

Infact, lack of new content is the very reason WC3 and SC2 is bleeding playerbase.

There is a very good reason why BeastyQT quit SC2.
And he was asking the best.
He made a lenghty video exactly why he enjoys AoE so much more than SC.
And the reason is simple.

The quest for perfect balance has made SC2 tactically sterile they keep adjusting and removing viable options due to “balance”
Its becoming less of a game about tactics and strategy and more of a game of Skills. In the form of who is more skillfull playing the Piano. The one who messes up 8ne keynote first usually the one who looses.

Now in the end of all this, Ofcourse Microsoft/Relic needs to adress issues with the game! Add critical content fixing bugs and all that! Nobody is denying that.

But leave that to the Team in charge of Running the game.

For the Project Team, they are most likely already working on the next DLC

And there is nothing wrong keeping discussions up bringing up new ideas and inspiration that the project team can look in to!

It surebeats the countless of repetative Whining threads about OP this or OP that.
Also there is a seperatw forum section for reporting bugs and issues
I wish they could bring those threads in there instead!

Id rather see the AoE4 Discussion forum talking about new ideas, discussing history related to the game, tactics and strategy.
Things far more positivev and productive than all these threads about Dead game and all that.

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You nailed it. Ultimately it is 100% civs, empires, history - in a word, DLCs, nothing else - that’s gonna revive Age of Empires 4. Definitely not endless repetitive “OP this, OP that” or “AoE4 is dead” topics.

Topics abour history, empires as inspiration for new civs, new game mechanics, new strategic frameworks are the most important discussions by a long mile.

Bugs and fixes can’t save AoE4 (most are fixed already anyway), and bugs do not belong here in Discussion Forum, there’s a Bug Forum for those.

SC has gone sterile, its appeal is waning terminally. It’s a game for finger-click robots now.

We don’t want AoE to become pure automaton French x English e-sport forever.

I also think these Ottoman topics are way too boring already. Please don’t open one again. We don’t need new civs atm. The core gameplay still has to be fixed, at least on water. There is still a couple of landmarks that are completely useless.

And we already have gunpowder, infantry, and cavalry-based civs. Even one with religion-based gameplay. Ottomans has nothing special that we would need in this game. What we need is a polished and bug-free core, if this is achieved we should talk about expansions. (We are quite far away from this)

The game can be dead anytime as the interest for RTS games is quite low. We will see how stormgate will be received by the communities but I can say they won’t have that many players. It would be quite a huge surprise if they would be able to maintain a long development cycle for stormgate based on their f2p model.

Theres like 4 threads in this section of the forum talking about the Ottomans.

One with a Suggestion of a DLC.
One in a generic Turk civilization Discussion
One asking for Ottomans to be added.

And then this One, being just a Concept Idea.

If you haven’t noticed, I’ve made plenty of Civilization Concepts before making this one if you even bothered reading the first post.

Southeast Asia:
The Majapahit Empire
The Dai Viet Dynasties
The Burmese Empire
The Champa Kingdoms
The Thai Kingdoms
The Khmer Empire

East Asia:
The Korean Dynasty
The Japanese Shogunate

Europe:
The Norse Vikings
The Scottish Kingdoms

The Ottoman being the 11th Civilization Concept I made.

This Topic, and the Topics of Civilization concepts are made for 2 reasons:
Thowing the Idea of this Civilization out there to the community.
but also giving them a brief history lesson of that Civilization related to the Game of Age of Empires.

Not just me, but I think many people who play Age of Empires are above average interested in History.
and Age of Empires 4 specifically wants to celebrate this history and put a focus on History.
I mean, just look on their campaigns, and events they throw out in honor of said history.

And if you haven’t noticed.

All civ’s is Gunpowder, Infantry, Cavalry and Religion based in this game. Even Naval, if you have a look at the full pictures.
Every civ currently is able to play all things, and has their unique strength on their things.

Gunpowder?
Well English and French has unique gunpowder units (rebalderquin).
English gunpowder units fire 25% faster.
French has mobile Cannons and Culverins.
Mongols have extra mobility on their gunpowder units, and with the Khan able to fire faster or granted more armor. And with the Kurultai, 25% more damage.
Chinese, having unique gunpowder tech, dynasty buff and NoB.
Abbasid having 15% more health on theris.
Rus having Strelskies.
Dheli having Forced march for superior mobility, and ability to build fortifications in form of walls.

So in a sense. All 8 civs are “Gunpowder” civ in their retrospect.

So you point that Ottomans won’t give anything special to the game, well is True to a sense, but that same argument can be given to any of the current civs in this game!

French don’t give anything special. English don’t give anything special, etc.
We might as well cut one of these Civ’s off.
Lets say, we just get rid of Dheli while were at it? Due to them being plagued with bugs.

For the sake of balance, and Polish, and for the fact, Dheli doesn’t give anything special to the game.

Nah, that would be outright silly.

While indeed this game need further Polish and Bug fixing.
This is a neverending job. It can Polish and Bug fix into eternity, as long as new patches are coming out, even without any new content. A change to the code is always a risk of a bug to the code.

But that being said. It’s not like this game is Unplayable. It’s still playable enough at the Competative level.
It’s not so horrible bug ridden than you can’t hold tournaments in this game!

Unlike many other Games now days have been.

When you look at it in its whole.
This game has been had surprisingly low game-breaking bugs compared to most games being released lately.

Ever heard of the massive criticism Cyberpunk2077 had at release? Fallout76 memes? Warthammer Total war? WC3 Remastered? Amazon’s New World?

Just to mention a few games far more hyped up than this one with a much vaster budget.
And 2 of these games I mentioned Fried peoples graphic cards rendering them useless! OUCH!
because if a tiny simple error of not having a frame-rate limited by default!

People saying this game will be dead anytime. Now that’s a thing I’ve commonly seen over and over again.
Yet it haven’t died yet?
They said the same thing about AoE3. Yet it still has a small but thriving community?

AoE franchise is one of those game franchise I actually don’t think will ever die. As long as AoE2 exist and has the popularity it has.
That in itself will keep any other AoE games alive just by proximity.

And I’m exited for Stormgate.
Not for the reason I want to play the game.
but so that most SC-fanboys can go over to that game and complain instead of trying to change AoE into just another “SC” game. but with medieval setting.

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Well, everyone would be happy if the aoe2 fanboys would go over to aoe2, and sc players back to sc, but then the game had no more players :smiley:

I am sorry that I didn’t check your other topics, I don’t have any problems with them, the only ones I am bored with are the ottoman ones. You will see 50+ search results for ottoman-related discussions as they are almost always mentioned in each thread.

Nevertheless, I still think that this game needs no new civs at the moment.

and thats fine.
And most likely we are not going to see any new civ until next year, if lucky, before xmas. but highly doubt that.

The reason why we see them being mentioned so many times in the search results, is due to them being in all the other AoE franchise titles.
And why the “Turks” are mentioned quite a lot in discussions here is that the Turkic tribes had a huge impact on history.
One is quick to forget that Turkic is a very broad term that encompasses many empires and civilizations of the era.
Technically even the Mongols and Huns are linked to this. They were fought in the middle between 2 great empires of the West and the East. so naturally they are often mentioned in all direction of history.

Regardless the probability of new civs being added to the game is very high. It doesn’t make any sense even from a business perspective to not do so.

It part of the identity of Age of Empires, it’s technically in the name.

It’s the same thing for StarCraft. StarCraft has been running the Terran-Zerg-Protos Trio since the beginning.
no expansion or anything has added new Faction to this triangle.
And any new SC titles are expected to keep this holy trinity.
One would rather be shocked if a new faction were to appear.
Mainly due to the fact, the Lore is so ingrained into the drama between these 3, that a 4th faction out of nowhere would just be very wrong. Or needs to have one hell of a worldbuilding and story telling, that should have been covered by the former games.

The reason why there is so many Ottoman threads is because, Turks themselves are a very popular faction to play. Perhaps due to high amount of Turkish players, but even outside Turkey, Ottoman is a unique alternative to the Western Nations of the era.

I mentioned it in a earlier post as well that the Ottoman/Turks aren’t among my top favourite Civilizations.
However, the thing I really love about them is them being the Catalyst of the Stereotypical Pirates of the age.
With the whole story around Captain Red Beard and his impact and legacy of the great maritime nations.
The barbarous Pirates or Arab-style pirates and their style is always something I’ve loved ever since I watched Sinbad TV show on TV as a kid.

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This sentence is a candidate to one of the most bizarre thinly-veiled-hate remarks on AoE forum. Do we really need this here? I didn’t use to be an Ottomans civ supporter, but now I’ll become one.

If “there are topic about all civs, but I’m only bored by this civ” (sic), why in Gods name are you posting in this guy’s Topic?

We already have “Infantry”? “Cavalry”? “Religion-based”? What is this guy talking about LOL :joy: :rofl:

Apparently, we have one person on the forum that didn’t notice.

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Well, what I meant by that is:
Infantry-based: HRE, Mb we can say English too.
Cavalry: French, Rus
Religion: Delhi
Gunpowder: China
Abbasid and Mongols are a good mix of cavalry and infantry, they are quite unique.

While all of the civ has all types of units the focus is different in each. The current rus meta not use early-knight but they are still here, and you can see how they designed that civ. + horse archers.

I think with this 8 civ all types of gameplay styles are covered. What we would require are changes to a few landmarks to give more decision-making chances to the players because currently, a few of them are not that useful.

Tbh, if we are to look on each civ Trademark. its rather simple. it stands in their civ description.

English: Defensive, Longbows, Farming.
French: Trade, Cavalry, Keeps.
HRE: Infantry, Religion, Defensive.
China: Dynasties, Gunpowder, Taxes.
Mongols: Aggression, Cavalry, Nomadic.
Rus: Expansion, Cavalry, Hunting.
Dheli: Elephant, Research, Religion.
Abbasid: Technology, Camels, City planning.

This is at least the 3 Key-words the Devs of AOE has in mind when thinking of these Civs.

My personal take, just based on how they are actually played by people is:

English: Long Range and Siege (in form of Artillery and extra-armored units)
French: Knights and Aggression
HRE: Religion and Infantry.
China: Workforce and Advanced-Weapons.
Mongols: Mobility and Aggression.
Rus: Hunting and Expansion. (map control in form of Towers, Scouts and strong Cavalry)
Dheli: Elephants and Defensive.
Abbasids: Technology and Economy.

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Personally, I believe any civilization design should have 3 or 4 keywords to describe it, and a measure of how strong a civ design is, is how specific, unique and game-changing those keywords are.

Example, keywords such as “infantry”, “archers”, “defensive” is the ultimate hallmark of a weak, boring civ design. “City planning”, “Dynasties”, “Nomadic” are far more interesting and game-changing.

I think @Kameho3743 's concept for the Ottoman Empire is amazing, mostly because of the highly flexible and revolutionary “Captive system” and treats like Sahi Topu. I’d like to ask @Kameho3743 what would your 3 keywords be for the Khmer, the Thai, the Burmese and the Ottoman Empire?
.

On this aspect, the concept below pops on top when searching the forum, it’s a major classic of the AoE forum and I dig the hybrid nomad-settled idea, the eco-mil asymmetry, and the wolf conversion idea, but a bit over the top in my opinion (10 different key features in a single civ is really too many):
.

(copied from another thread)

Part 1: Top 10 Reasons why It’s the Most Unique Civ

Here’s the Top 10 Reasons why the Turks / Ottoman Empire concept is the most unique, gameplay-changing civ concept on the Age of Empires Forum (further details on the full Civ Concept below):

1. it’s the ONLY Hybrid (nomad+settled) civ in the history of the franchise

2. the ONLY asymmetric civ in terms of fundamental Economy-Military balance in Age of Empires EVER

3. it has the UNPRECEDENTED trade interference concept / Monopoly

4. when it SLAYS a Trader, it takes ALL the gold bytch was carrying

5. it has the BEASTLY, BRUTAL Great Bombard in its REAL historical size

6. it boosts the army with a badass army BAND, not a priest; a song for each situation

7. it can tame WOLVES based on the cool, unique, SAVAGE legend of origin of the Turks

8. versatile, evolving “Spartan” COMBO unit Yeniçeri (Janissary) in ages 2-4; heavy knight Spahi with massive, BRUTAL skull-crushing mace as weapon

9. it has a NEVER-SEEN-before Devshirme army recruitment method, and Ghazi veterancy system

10. the Ottoman Empire created 97% of Mega Bombards on Earth, invented the matchlock MUSKET that changed history, and was the WORLD’s most powerful empire at the end of AoE4 time

Ottoman Spahi Armor 1479

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I think i did put it under the flag.

But i see i need to redo most of them anyway.
But they are the first Keywords i put up when thinking up a concept.

But for the here is at least a updated list:

Khmer: Economy, City planning, Religion(Monestary)

Thai: Trade, Religion(Units), Defensive

Burma: Cavalry, Religion(Relic), Aggression

Ottoman: Gunpowder, Artillery, Aggression

As I explained on my last message, I believe specific, new-concept keywords are much better than generic keywords.
Your 3 Southeast Asian civs all have the keyword “Religion”. “Cavalry”, “Defensive”, “Aggression” are pretty bland, unstimulating right?
I hope you will further enhance these civ concepts and keywords, to better formulate new DLC options for the future DLC poll.

Seen from my perspective, your Ottoman Empire civ concept keywords are

Captive system, Viziers, Pirates, Giant Bombard

.

In comparison, keywords for classic Ottoman Empire civ concept by @Vinifrss on forum seems to be

Hybrid (Nomad-to-Settled), Asymmetric Eco-Mil, Wolves, Devshirme, Army Band

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These fantastic concepts illustrate how AoE4’s current ‘staleness’ has nothing to do with the number of civs (8). “Too few civs” doesn’t necessarily equate a stale game.

The popular (easy to play) civs are French and English, two awfully INSIPID, unimaginative and monotonous civs, with a profile, structure and gameplay all tediously mimicking AoE2. What a waste of franchise! The Mongols and Delhi are much better civs.

This (not bugs, not graphics, not civ number) is what threatens and is corroding AoE4: this boredom, this playing it too safe with civ/gameplay ideas. Bugs already fixed… but even AoE3 has more players than AoE4 now.

However the good news is, AoE4’s redemption and playerbase revival is very possible - with a DLC addressing the real problem - and hopefully coming soon.

Deeply imaginative, unique civs with SYSTEMICALLY transformative, revolutionary new mechanics, like the Turks in this Topic with @Kameho3743’s ‘Captive system’, ‘Viziers’ or @SuicydalMonk’s ‘Hybrid nomad-settled’, ‘Wolf taming’, ‘Army band songs’, or the Majapahit civ topic with Spices mechanic, that’s the only thing that can resuscitate AoE4 and turn it into what it could and should have been all along.

AoE4 doesn’t need 40 factions, the entire Balkans. It needs just the right civs, historically significant and unique, with fresh, systemically transformative, game-changing ideas. ‘English’ and ‘French’ are not this.

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Lol that’s not true. I am already kinda bored of the existing civs. A new civ would be great. Aoe2 had tons of civs, also Aoe3.

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Want to say on this page is that the Ottomans will in fact be in AoE4 via the free anniversary DLC.

I would love to be able to edit my thread (change hte title) But for some reason the forum locks the threads from edition after its gone 1 week. for some reason.

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