AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Ottoman Empire

The Ottomans (Osmans)

The Osman Empire (God knows why the English pronounce it with TT instead of S)

Janissaries, Gunpowder, Tribute

Difficulty: 2/3

Bonuses

  • Mills provide a the boost to amount of resources of animal carcasses (Sheep and Deer)
  • Scouts have range attacks and affected by blacksmith upgrades but cost 30 more food.
  • Scouts gain +1 range attack for each age up.
  • Cannot gather food from Boars, but have +5 carry capacity from Sheep and Deer.
  • Gunpowder units fire 25% faster.
  • Military Naval units gain +50 Wood and 50 Gold when sinking an enemy ship
  • Unique Building: Serail
  • Unique Unit: Dervish (replaces monks)
  • Unique Unit: Great Bombards (Replaces Bombards)
  • Unique Unit: Janissary (Replaces Cannoneers)
  • Unique Unit: Grand Vizier

Captives: When killing enemy units and buildings with non-siege units, one gains captives equal to the Population value of the unit and Building.Grand Viziers can be used to extract captives from enemy structures.Captives can be used to produce Janissary units, Villagers or be traded for Gold.

Unique LandmarksFeudal Age

  • Tomb of Ertuğrul: Grants improved scouts tech for free, Produces scouts 400% faster.
  • Kapalıçarşı: Functions as a market. Has 50% improved exchange rates and doubles the value of trading Captives for gold. Captives can also be traded for all types of resources.

Castle Age

  • Anadoluhisarı: Functions as a keep. Units killed by defensive structures grant double the amount of Captives. Keeps and Towers connected to its influence area does 33% more damage.
  • Şahi topu: A landmark that functions as a bombard. But has to be packed up and moved which takes 5 seconds. Does colossal damage to defensive structures. Allows construction of bombards by Janissaries in Imperial age.

Imperial Age.

  • Topkapı Palace: Functions as a Serail, Increases captivity limit by 50, A Valide Sultan is given, (limited to 1 unit), if a Valide Sultan is lost, it takes 240 seconds before another one is automatically produced for free. Valid Sultan functions exactly like a Grand Vizier.
  • Bayezid II Mosque: Gains +5 captives every 1m. Relics stored in this structure also increase the production speed of Janissaries by 150% (Up to 2 relics can be stored)

Wonder: Süleymaniye Mosque.

Landmark Note:

Tomb of Ertuğrul does not have any surviving structures. Most structures and mosques of the oldest Ottoman architecture located in Söğüt did not survive today. As the tomb and mosques dedicated to Ertuğrul have been through several reconstructions. So nothing is certain about the origin. The Current Mausoleum was built in the 19th century, one could however Design it after one of the Early Ottoman mosques, such as the Hacı Özbek Mosque.

Şahi topu is a bit special. It is a landmark that behaves more like a movable defensive structure, similar to a Mongol Landmark.This means that does not take extra damage from Culverings or Springalds.It is however vournarable to anything that does bonus damage to buildings. And units would use torches as if it was any other building. It has the movement speed of an unupgraded Mongol Structure.Also, Who doesn’t want a MEGA Sized cannon (which Turks were so known for) in AOE4!?

Unique Buildings:

  • Seraglio (I, 4 Captives 75W): Increases captivity limit by 10.

Unique Units:

  • Grand Vizier (I, 150G): A unit that when garrisoned, grants an influenced area that lowers the resource cost of buildings/units/technology within its influence area.If enemies/friendly structures are within its influence area, they are rendered neutral and provide 1 captive per structure every 30 seconds, as long as they are under the influence of the Grand Vizier (does not apply to defensive structures such as TownCenters, Landmarks, Walls, Keeps and Towers) (Limited to 1 Grand Vizier)
  • Dervish (II, 250F): Religious unit that cost food instead of gold and can function as a villager, able to gather resources like a villager, but not construct buildings.
  • Janissary (II, 1 Captive 50G): Starts off as a Archer unit but becomes a Gunpowder unit with a Castle Age upgrade.
  • Great Bombards (IV, 400W 600G): A bombard but greater, doing much greater damage against buildings and ships.

Technologies

  • Zhigir (II, 150F 100G):

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.
Zhigir thumb ring used for archery

Increases fire rate by Scouts and Archers by 15%. Researched at Archery Range.

  • Ghazis (II, 150F 50G):

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.
Illustration of the Ghazi warrior tribe by the Osmans

Scouts are able to fire while moving. Researched at Archery Range.

  • Kazasker (II, 100F 100G): Grand Vizier Influence now grants +1 captive when friendly units die within its influence. Researched at Barracks.
  • Barbary Piracy (III, 100F 100G):

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.
Ottoman corsairs fasing dutch fleet.

Increases bounty gained from sinking enemy ship by 25. Researched at Docks.

  • Thalassocracy (III, 250W 150G): Increases production speed from docks by 20%. Researched at Docks.
  • Janissary Sappers (III, 300W 200G): Janissaries are able to construct additional siege weapons such as Mangonels, Trebuchets in, age III,facing and Culverins in age IV. Research at Blacksmith.
  • Surgery Tools (IV, 700G):

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.
Illustration of surgery tools used by Ceriye trained in medicine

Seraglio now provides healing to nearby units. Research at Madrasa

  • Monobloc Pumps (IV 200F 350G): Ships no longer suffer damage over time when caught on fire. Research at Madrasa.
  • Guns of Orban (IV, 300F 700G): Bombards, Cannon emplacement, and Xebec have a +1 Range. Research at Blacksmith.
  • Mehterân (IV 300F 300G): Janissaries provide 25% faster attack speed to nearby units when standing still. Research at Madrasa.

Additional Notes:

The Architecture of the Ottoman empire would be a continuation of the Seljuk and Beylik architecture. While also incorporating local Byzantine influences. New styles took shape in capital cities, and three main types of structure predominated early in the period. Single-domed Mosques (Example Green mosque of Iznik). “T-plan” Buildings (Example Green Mosque in Bursa) and Multi-domed buildings (example Great Mosque of Bursa). This form of Early Ottoman architecture would be covered by the Dark and Feudal age. Over time the Ottomans would implement more European designs, the latter being known as “Classical” Ottoman architecture that Castle and Imperial age would cover. A Period is most strongly associated with the works of Mimar Sinan, who was the chief court architect under the three sultans between 1538 and 1588. It also coincided with the start of the period of Suleiman the Magnificent, which ushered in Ottoman political and cultural development. Ottoman architecture at this time was strongly influenced by Byzantine Architecture, particularly the Hagia Sophia.

Naval units: Ottoman Navy would take on the design of the Abbasid Navy units. Keeping the Dhow, Baglah, and Xebec design.

Language progression: the Turkish language has a long history related to the Turkic people. Ottoman Turkish was highly influenced by Arabic and Persian, accounting for 88% of its vocabulary. The Arabic borrowings were borrowed through Persian and not through direct exposure to Arabic.

However, there is important to note that Ottoman Turkish would be divided among its people, as it was spoken in 3 forms.

  • Fasih Türkçe (Eloquent Turkish): the language of poetry and administration, Ottoman Turkish in its strict sense; (Grand Vizier, Kings, Knights, Military Naval units, and Janissaries)
  • Orta Türkçe (Middle Turkish): the language of higher classes and trade; (Traders, MaA, Crossbowmen, Siege)
  • Kaba Türkçe (Rough Turkish): the language of lower classes. (Villagers, Scouts, Spearmen, and Archers)

Historically, Ottoman Turkish was transformed in three eras:

Eski Osmanlı Türkçesi (Old Ottoman Turkish): the version of Ottoman Turkish used until the 16th century. It was almost identical to the Turkish used by the Seljuk empire and Anatolian beyliks and was often regarded as part of Eski Anadolu Türkçesi (Old Anatolian Turkish).

Orta Osmanlı Türkçesi (Middle Ottoman Turkish) or Klasik Osmanlıca (Classical Ottoman Turkish): the language of poetry and administration from the 16th century until Tanzimat.

Yeni Osmanlı Türkçesi (New Ottoman Turkish): the version shaped from the 1850s to the 20th century under the influence of journalism and Western-oriented literature.

Landmark references:

Tomb of Ertuğrul:

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

A tomb and mosque dedicated to Ertuğrul is said to have been built by Osman I at Söğüt, but due to several rebuildings nothing certain can be said about the origin of these structures. The current mausoleum was built by Sultan Abdul Hamid II (1842 – 1918) in the late 19th century. The town of Söğüt celebrates an annual festival to the memory of the early Osmans.

Very little is known about Ertuğrul, but according to Legend, he was the father of Osman I, the founder of the Ottoman empire, he was a part of the Oghuz tribe that fled from the Mongols into Anatolia, where he encountered the Seljuk tribes and offered his services. As a result of his assistance to the Seljuks against the Byzantines, Ertuğrul was granted lands in Karaca Dağ, a mountainous area between Diyarbakır and Urfa, by Kayqubad I, the Seljuk Sultan of Rum. One account indicates that the Seljuk leader’s rationale for granting Ertuğrul land was for Ertuğrul to repel any hostile incursion from the Byzantines or other adversaries. Later, he received the village of Söğüt which he conquered together with the surrounding lands.

That village, where he later died, became the Ottoman capital under his son, Osman I. Osman’s mother has been referred to as Halime Hatun in later myths, and there is a grave outside the Ertuğrul Gâzi Tomb that bears the name, but it is disputed.

Kapalıçarşı:

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.
Massive complex of the Grand Bazaar

Also known as the Grand Bazaar. (Yes the Abbasid Upgrade). Istanbul is one of the largest and oldest Covered Markets (which is the literal meaning of its name) in the world. And is still in use today, being listed as one of the world’s most visited tourist attractions, with 91 million annual visitors. It is often regarded as the First Shopping mall in the world. The construction of the future Grand Bazaar’s core started shortly after the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople and was part of a broader initiative to stimulate economic prosperity in Istanbul.

At the beginning of the 17th Century, the Grand Bazaar had already achieved its final form. Due to the enormous extent of the Ottoman Empire at this time, it became a market that was unrivaled in Europe with regard to the abundance, variety, and quality of the goods on sale.

Anadoluhisarı:

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

The complex is the oldest surviving Turkish architectural structure built in Istanbul. Anadoluhisarı was built between 1393 and 1394 on the commission of the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid I, as part of his preparations for a siege on the then-Byzantine city of Constantinople.

Constantinople was blockaded from 1394 on, but Bayezid’s campaign was first interrupted by the Crusade of Nicopolis, and then ended with his defeat at the Battle of Ankara. An 11-year civil war followed, which ended with the ascent of Mehmed I to the throne. His grandson, Sultan Mehmed II reinforced the fortress with a two-meter-thick wall and three additional watchtowers and added further extensions, including a warehouse and living quarters. As part of his plans to launch a renewed military campaign to conquer Constantinople, Mehmed II further built a sister structure to Anadoluhisarı across the Bosphorus called Rumelihisarı, and the two fortresses worked in tandem in 1453 to throttle all maritime traffic along the Bosphorus, thus helping the Ottomans achieve their goal of making the city of Constantinople (later renamed Istanbul) their new imperial capital.

Şahi topu:

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

Also known as the Dardanelles Gun, The Basilica or Great Turkish Bombard. Is a 15th-century Siege Cannon, specifically a super-sized Bombard which saw action as late as 1807, when a Royal Navy force appeared and commenced the Dardanelles Operation. Turkish forces loaded the ancient relics with propellant and projectiles, then fired them at the British ships. The British squadron suffered 28 casualties from this bombardment. It was built in 1464 by Turkish military engineer Munir Ali and modeled after the Orban bombard that was used for the Ottoman besiegers of Constantinople in 1453. At the siege of Constantinople in 1453, the Ottomans employed a number of cannons, anywhere from 12 to 62. They were built at foundries that employed Turkish cannon founders and technicians, most notably Saruca, in addition to at least one foreign cannon founder, Orban. Most of the cannons at the siege were built by Turkish engineers, including a large bombard by Saruca, while one cannon was built by Orban, who also contributed a large bombard.

Orban was from Brassó, Kingdom of Hungary, before working for the Ottoman army in 1453. Ali’s piece is assumed to have closely followed the outline of the large bombards used at the siege of Constantinople.

Topkapı Palace:

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

In the 15th and 16th centuries it served as the main residence and administrative headquarters of the Ottoman sultans. It was given the name Topkapı, meaning Cannon Gate, in the 19th century. The complex expanded over the centuries, with major renovations after the 1509 earthquake and the 1665 fire. The palace complex consists of four main courtyards and many smaller buildings. Female members of the Sultan’s family lived in the harem, and leading state officials, including the Grand Vizier, held meetings in the Imperial Council building. After Sultan Mehmed II’s conquest of Constantinople in 1453, the Great Palace of Constantinople was largely in ruins.

Mehmed II ordered that the construction of Topkapı Palace begin in 1459. According to an account of the contemporary historian Critobulus of Imbros the sultan “took care to summon the very best workmen from everywhere – masons and stonecutters and carpenters … For he was constructing great edifices which were to be worth seeing and should in every respect vie with the greatest and best of the past.”

Later sultans made various modifications to the palace, though Mehmed II’s basic layout was mostly preserved. The palace was significantly expanded between 1520 and 1560, during the reign of Suleyman the Magnificent. The Ottoman Empire had expanded rapidly and Suleyman wanted his residence to reflect its growing power. The chief architect in this period was the Persian Alaüddin, also known as Acem Ali. He was also responsible for the expansion of the Harem.

Bayezid II Mosque:

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.
The Beyazid Mosque was commissioned by the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid II, and was the second large imperial mosque complex (or selatin mosque) to be erected in Istanbul after the conquest in 1453. The earlier imperial complex, the Fatih Mosque, was later destroyed by earthquakes and completely rebuilt in a different style. As a result, the Beyazid complex is the oldest imperial complex in Istanbul that is preserved in more or less its original form, making it of considerable historical and architectural significance. The mosque was constructed between 1500 and 1505, with a külliye (religious and charitable comp This included a madrasa (theological college), completed in 1507; a large hammam (bathhouse), completed some time before 1507; an imaret (soup kitchen); a caravanserai; and several mausolea including the türbe of Bayezid II himself.

The chief architect of the mosque is not directly known. Based on Ottoman documents that mention architects during Bayezit II’s reign, Yakubşah ibn Islamşah is the most likely architect. One of Yakubşah’s assistants, Yusuf ibn Papas, finished off the work on the madrasa. The architect was a nephew of the Greek architect of the Fatih Mosque (Atik Sinan or Christodoulos), is known from a grant of Bayezid II. This grant confirms the endowment by Mehmed II of the Greek Orthodox Church of Saint Mary of the Mongols, the only church in Istanbul that was never converted into a mosque, to the mother of Christodoulos (the Bayezid II Mosque’s architect’s grandmother) in acknowledgment of the two architects’ work.

Wonder: Süleymaniye Mosque:

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

Suleyman The Magnificent chose the architect Mimar Sinan to create a mosque in remembrance of his son Shehzade Mehmed. Suleyman was beyond impressed with Sinan’s completion that he decided to have him design a mosque after himself. This mosque would represent the eminence of the Ottoman Empire. Sinan built around two hundred buildings in Constantinople. He used inspiration from the Hagia Sophia and the Bayezid II Mosque to design the Süleymaniye Mosque. This holy structure replaced the old palace of Topkapi which still had functional use at the time. However, as ordered by Sultan, the palace was demolished and redeveloped. The design of the Süleymaniye also plays on Süleyman’s self-conscious representation of himself as a ‘second Solomon.’ It references the Dome of the Rock, which was built on the site of the Temple of Solomon, as well as Justinian’s boast upon the completion of the Hagia Sophia: “Solomon, I have surpassed thee!”

Unique Building:

Seraglio:

r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

  • Health: 700

These structures increase the total Captivity limit by 10. To a total of 100, But also function as a supportive structure providing healing to the nearby unit with the Surgery Tools.

Şahi topu:

  • Health: 4000
  • Attack: 1000 Ranged (Giant Bombard), + 2000 vs Walls. Rate of fire: 8s. (Giant Bombard)
  • Range: 12 Tiles.
  • Armor: 0
  • Pierce armor: 50.
  • Speed: 1 tiles/s (When Packed)

Unique Unit:

Grand Vizier (also applies to Valide Sultan landmark unit):
r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

Topkapı Palace unique Landmark unit.
r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

  • Health: 85
  • Armor: 0
  • Pierce Armor: 0
  • Speed: 1.12 tiles/s

This unit functions as a supervisor when garrisoned inside Structures such as Town Centers, Towers, and Keeps. When Garrisoned, it provides an area of influence area that lowers the resource cost of buildings/units/technology within its influence area. If enemies/friendly teammate structures are within its influence area, they are rendered neutral and provide 1 captive per structure every 120 seconds, as long as they are under the influence of the Grand Vizier (does not apply to defensive structures such as TownCenters, Landmarks, Walls, Keeps and Towers) (Limited to 1 Grand Vizier).

Dervish:
r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

  • Health: 90
  • Attack: 12 (Bardiche)
  • Attack Speed: 3.75
  • Armor: 0
  • Pierce Armor: 0
  • Speed: 1.3 tiles/s

A religious unit that cost food instead of Gold. And moves slightly faster than a regular Monk/Imam. It is also able to gather resources like a villager (but unable to build), and defend itself like villagers.

Janissary:
r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

Janissaries Multitude of weapons. (Bows, Arquebus and Sword being their main weapons)

  • Health: 85/110/150
  • Attack: 5/7 Ranged (Bow); +5/+7 vs Light melee; 10/14/16 Melee (Sword); 35 ranged (Arquebus);
  • Rate of fire: 1.5s Ranged (Bow); 1.25s (Sword); 2s (Arquebus)
  • Range: 5 tiles (Bow); 4 tiles (Arquebus)
  • Armor: 0
  • Pierce Armor: 0
  • Speed: 1.25 tiles/s

A unit that can be bought cheaply with Captives + gold.The unit starts off as an archer unit with melee capabilities. When upgraded into Elite Janissary, they replace the bow with an Arquebus. And moves slightly faster than a regular gunpowder infantry.With the Sapper upgrade, they are also able to construct additional siege weapons such as Mangonels, Trebuchets, and Bombards in the field.

Great Bombards:
r/aoe4 - AoE4 Civilization Concept: The Osman Empire.

  • Health: 300
  • Attack: 150 Ranged (Cannon); Bonus vs Naval and Buildings +550 Rate of fire: 5.5s Ranged (Cannon);
  • Range: 10 tiles (Cannon);
  • Armor: 0
  • Pierce armor: 30 Speed: 0.62 tiles/s

A unique Bombard that is bigger and stronger than a regular bombard. However, has a slightly lower reload speed.

Write-up:

This Civilization was far more… Complicated to make than one first presumes it to be. Due to complicated history, and the fact that so much is documented about this Empire, one could spend an eternity diving into documentaries, books, and all sorts of things about the Ottoman empire. Another difficulty was its lack of knowledge of the early founding of the Ottoman empire. Originally I wanted to make “Turks” that encompass all of the Turkish groups, but the more you read into it, the more you realize they were rather different from each other to an extent and had their own motivation and goals. While they certainly share a common Ancestry, the more you read into the Ottomans, the more see that just Ottomans by themselves have enough material to work with to make a fully fleshed Civilization.

Trying to mix in Seljuks, Oghuz, and many of the other Turkish tribes and empires the Ottoman Empire eventually expanded over. Would just make it very cluttered in its own sense and just make it more complicated.

However, it is not to be said that I haven’t forgotten their Turkic roots, this is hence why I decided to make their Scouts rather early offensive units. That uses their Bow attack as the main attack, thus functioning as a very early Horse-Cavalry, with the ability to harass the opponent. Using scouts more offensively in the early ages allows for the gain of early captives.The Captive system functions as an additional resource pool. Where the construction of Serail is required to increase the limit of the resource pool, much like housing does for the population.

Another challenge was avoiding the usage of the Term: Slavery. Due to today’s society’s sensitivity around this term and topic. Just beginning a word with the Netflix logo nowadays turns everyone’s attention towards you.

This is why I tried to find alternative means, that didn’t have such negative connotations attached to them. But there is no denying that Slavery played a massive part in the Ottoman empire. One could in technical terms say that the Ottoman empire was even ruled by Slaves at certain points in history.

The Janissaries are prime examples of this having a huge influence on the Ottoman regime, very often being Kingmakers and influence the decisions made by the empire.

However, being a Slave in the Ottoman empire was very different than being a slave in the Americas. Slaves in the Ottoman empire were often seen as an opportunity to climb the social ranks, as many slaves, especially those in the service to the Sultan, were given opportunities for education, and given important roles in the military, administration, science, and entertainment. So quite often one would even see families willing to give away one of their members into slavery. In the hopes for them to climb the hierarchy and thus be able to support their family with their higher social status and newfound influence. While this is certainly not the situation for all slaves. I think I will rather choose to be a slave in the Ottoman empire than in the Americas if I was given the choice if forced into slavery.

Another thing I wanted to try to emphasize is the importance Women had in Ottoman society, today it’s easy to think that Muslim women had no power or rights in Islamic society. At least in the Ottoman empire, there were periods where the one ruling the empire was the Valide Sultan, the mother of the Sultan, usually the “legal wife” of the previous Sultan. The Valide Sultan, being a former Ceriye, a Concubine of the Sultan’s Harem. Again, technically a Slave.While other women of harems. Be it the sultan’s education harem or another person of importance in the ottoman empire. Were often given quite high education, and were often given eduction within medicine, many becoming Physicians and even Surgeons during these times.

And then there is Gunpowder. The hallmark of the Ottoman. Big guns and the good stuff we like. This is where I wanted to give the Ottomans something special. A giant cannon landmark, that could possibly serve an interesting unique role in the game. Being a type of siege unit that is “difficult” to take down. But more importantly, blast through defenses. And acting very similar to a Mongol landmark, such as the Kurultai, moving alongside the armies, seeing action on the front lines. nd again, a nudge to their Turkic ancestry.

And given access to early bombards.

I also did not want to forget the Maritime legacy they left behind. The famous Barbary Pirates, such as the famous pirate/Corsair and later becoming Admiral, Red Beard, also known as Barbarossa. This is why I wanted to give them the Piracy ability for their naval vessels. Giving their navy a unique trait that is a proven concept for the Mongols.And also compensation for being unable to gain captives in naval fights, and Janissaries not having to much use in the open seas. But should be interesting nonetheless.

Another Challenge was the Avoidance to use Imams, as Imams are unique units to Abbasids. This is where Dervish comes into the picture. A very interesting Turkic religious figure, well famous today as those guys that like to Spin around all day.

The Dervish is also interesting in the fact they combine Mysticism with Islam. And have sort of parallel to Buddhist monks. Taking a vow of Poverty, prohibited to Beg for their own good and the money they collect from begging is to be given to other poor people. They were also quite often found to be doing work in common professions such as being fishermen as for example. This helps them to be a little more unique compared to other religious units, being able to function as a “villager” in a term.

So yeah, the Ottomans have a lot to bring to the table.

Next up: Spain

If you enjoyed this and are interested in reading my other Civilization concept here is a list:

Southeast Asia:

The Majapahit Empire

The Dai Viet Dynasties

The Burmese Empire

The Champa Kingdoms

The Thai Kingdoms

The Khmer Empire

East Asia:

The Korean Dynasty

The Japanese Shogunate

Europe:

The Norse Vikings

The Scottish Kingdoms

5 Likes

Insightful ideas from forum’s excellent Mr. Research.

Can you maybe summarize it a little bit in the DLC investigation & poll? Like you did a summary for your Southeast Asia concepts (I’m still researching DLC themes)?

Lots of innovations, the ‘captive’ mechanic is revolutionary in Age of Empires and also as a contrast to modern anthropology / sociology.

1- what’s the design purpose behind the intriguing Dervish unit? Dervishes became famous for mysticism, for poetry, philosophy, and for being paradoxical “hippies” (meditation replacing weed) in a brutal medieval time

2- for you, should janissaries carry a big axe or a long scimitar as main melee weapon? Should they be switchable from melee mode to ranged mode as they became pioneer for?

3- ‘captives’ is perhaps the most interesting mechanic I’ve seen here, given the multitude strategic paths one could imagine. Is a Vizier always necessary to claim the new Captives? How to you develop it into Janissary?

4- Sahi Topu is an exciting idea, a Landmark that’s a move-deploy BEHEMOTH Bombard

The Dervish is a unique monk unit that can function as a villager in the sense it can gather resources.
In addition to healing.

It also had the added bonus to fight of any wildlife that harasses it when securing relics.

That way it is a religious unit that always produces value instead of idling.

The Janisaries would sort of function as a Strelski.

But unlike strelskies are cheaper to produce. And available from age II

Whenever a unit is engaged in melee it will use a sword to fight back. Making it more capable In fighting melee units with high range armor.

You are not dependant on using vizier to claim captives.
It simply allows you to lock down some buildings to gain stable source of captives when on the offensive.

The Vizier has 2 roles.

  1. Economical role, staying in your base or foreward production zone to reduce to cost of units and research.

  2. Offensive role. Moving up with your army giving them a slight buff but more importantly quickly recover captive points if the army fights under the ingluence area of the Vizier.

However constructing towers and keeps becomes important in order to Garrison the vizier so it can grabt is influence area.

Janissaries are unique in the term that they can be produces with these captive points.
And as long as you can have a steady stream of this. It allows you to produce a very cheap army at all times.

Since most of players only play one or two civs, there is no need for new civs. At least in multiplayer competitive games.

That being rather presumtious.

Just because a group of the playerbase sticks to two civs. We should just ditch any future civ expansions for the future?

heck, since majority is playing only French and English.
Why don’t we just shave off the other Civ’s so we can focus on the balance between those two for achieving balance for MP competitive play.

This does sound rather rude of me, but it’s not a valid excuse.

AoE2 has a handful of more Civilizations and yet manage to have a competitive play scenary.

I don’t see why shouldn’t add more Civilization in the future.

Not everything should be about catering towards the Competative play. Nor needs to be perfectly balanced.
Even BeastyQT himself say so!

And among the top player, They play all the Civ’s to their strength and weaknesses.
it makes picking Civilizations more strategic.

Oh, It’s french pass. I know my opponent is very strong with Abbasid on that map. So I’m gonna put a bad on abbasid for this round.
I see he banned my HRE, so I’m gonna pick China for this map as I am strongest with them.

You can just take a look on other competitive games as well.
Good example being LoL and DOTA.

They are still adding new “heroes” constantly. This + new skins is what keeps their playerbase healthy and long running.
Sometimes the new heroes are Unbalanced, but over time they get polished and integrated just as any of the other hero’s in the rooster you can choose between.

imagine how immensely boring game such as those would be if you only had 8 characters to choose from.

Great thing about Age of Empires, is that it isn’t fantasy.
It caters towards history. And regardless who one is, people would love and favor playing a Civilization that resonates best with them,

I see a lot of Turks would absolutely love playing a Turkic based civ.
be it Ottomans, Seljuks or Oghuz.

Me having Thai heritage would love to see a South East asian civ.

And the massive amount of weebs would go HAM for a Japanese civ.

I dunno man, I see nothing but positivity for adding more civilization over time.

Sure, they should just completely screw the balance and throw it out of the window.

Just like my Civilization concept, they need to be planned carefully and try to the best of their abilities to integrate them with the current balance.

heck even now with the current civs, not everything is balanced. And issue of Balance is a perpetual thing that will go into eternity.

As long as something isn’t to weak or to strong, and has their special strength they can play upon. I don’t see why not.

Having few Civ’s will just make the game Stagnant and repetitive. As it isn’t close being this already.
With majority doing the same ol tactic.
Or constantly encountering French or English.

It’s like everytime I meet someone play an Unusual civ such as Abbasid or Dheli, even China sometimes, I can’t help but to feel estathic finally coming across someone playing a different civ using different tactics and builds.

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heck, since majority is playing only French and English.
Why don’t we just shave off the other Civ’s so we can focus on the balance between those two for achieving balance for MP competitive play.

There is a third option. No new civs and all developments go to gameplay and good UI interface. And these two are what AOE4 is most lack of.

Not everything should be about catering towards the Competative play.

True, I have no problem with new civs if they don’t add it to the quick match or ranking. If you want have fun with new civs, have it yourself with AI or compaign.

And among the top player, They play all the Civ’s to their strength and weaknesses

They are forced to play all civs because of tournament rules. If you remember when AOE4 just releases, most of top players tend to focus on few civs, just like progammer in every successful rts game. Even for MOBA game like DOTA2, players tend to play heros with specific style.

You can just take a look on other competitive games as well.
Good example being LoL and DOTA.

LoL and DOTA are MOBA games where 5v5 is most popular. And in tournament, only 5v5 is played. And for rts game, such team games are pretty rare.

imagine how immensely boring game such as those would be if you only had 8 characters to choose from.

SC2/SC only has 3 characters and they are greatest RTS in history ever. And even the whole country (Korea) once fall in love with a game only with 3 characters. Why is that? WC3 has 4 and never changed that.

I see a lot of Turks would absolutely love playing a Turkic based civ.

Come on, man. This is just a game. Maybe you should put nationalism somewhere else? I’m Chinese and would be really glad if they replace China with Turks by just adjusting the names.

I dunno man, I see nothing but positivity for adding more civilization over time.

For RTS game, gameplay is everything, much much more important than fancy new civs. If game is unbalanced, it seems fine in tournament since they have all those stupid civ banning rules. But for normal vast players, game could be unbearable because of that.

Having few Civ’s will just make the game Stagnant and repetitive.

Not true. For example, sc/sc2/wc3. And the reason is this:
Progamers, who can focus on one race, always come up with some brilliant strategies from time to time. And meta of gameplay keeps evolving every year even without any change from the game. The best example is SC. The game is so good and game looks different every year without any significant balance change. SC2 is the same case but with balance change from year to year. All of these is due to the small number of civs and it’s easy for balance team to make changes without breaking the game completely. And every civ can get those big changes but at the same time no civ is overbuffed. Could you do this for AOE2? It’s even difficult for them to dream about this.

Great idea!.. if you want the game DEAD.
Why not keep only English (wasn’t even an empire) and French then?
This has to be one of the most un-AoE comments I’ve seen so far.

This is the Age of Empires forum and I’m sure a lot of people here strongly disagree with that. I certainly very, very much do.

What nationalism? He’s Norwegian and I’m Estonian.
Every civ is valuable in this game, we like them all equally because this is Age of Empires, it’s not just an empty quick-finger robot e-sport.
China and Turks are galaxies away in lifestyle, history, looks, architecture, everything, that’s why we want both.
So why would you call China “Turks”? This kills everything AoE ever stood for.
We might as well just go play SC instead.

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Here is the thing with development process.

The guys designing the UI are not the same guys who work in 3D modelling, Storytelling, networking or even Core Game Engine.

Remember. Relic and certainly Microsoft is not a Indie game developter, as much as we someone would love to call it at times of frustration.

They can work on a New Civ paralell to fixing and adressing issues with the game.

I dont know if poeple even realise how many Industries Work.

I myself work for a Major European ISP provider. The team that runs the maintanance is completely different from the team that works on Projects.

You have 1 team that goes out and build new virgin infrastructure.

And then you have another team that runs maintanance on the infrastructure that already been built.
Much of these work comes doing “bug” fixes of the new network and as well, Building network to pockets within the infrastructure. That the Project team skipped over due to various reasons.

Most industries work in a similar fashion, and game developtment wouldnt be far to off. As online games stemt just Make n Forget. Like in the early days or akin to movie industry.

This is not SC2/WC3.
If you want to play RTS catering to the holy trinity of balance.
Then play those games! Age of Empires have never and hopefully never will be like that.

There are so many out the RTS out there with more than 3 factions.
COH2 has 6 factions! 3 of then being later DLC addition.

Total War games have multiple factions! All depending on the game. Yet those have thriving online community as well as tournaments.

One does not need to stop new content.

Infact, lack of new content is the very reason WC3 and SC2 is bleeding playerbase.

There is a very good reason why BeastyQT quit SC2.
And he was asking the best.
He made a lenghty video exactly why he enjoys AoE so much more than SC.
And the reason is simple.

The quest for perfect balance has made SC2 tactically sterile they keep adjusting and removing viable options due to “balance”
Its becoming less of a game about tactics and strategy and more of a game of Skills. In the form of who is more skillfull playing the Piano. The one who messes up 8ne keynote first usually the one who looses.

Now in the end of all this, Ofcourse Microsoft/Relic needs to adress issues with the game! Add critical content fixing bugs and all that! Nobody is denying that.

But leave that to the Team in charge of Running the game.

For the Project Team, they are most likely already working on the next DLC

And there is nothing wrong keeping discussions up bringing up new ideas and inspiration that the project team can look in to!

It surebeats the countless of repetative Whining threads about OP this or OP that.
Also there is a seperatw forum section for reporting bugs and issues
I wish they could bring those threads in there instead!

Id rather see the AoE4 Discussion forum talking about new ideas, discussing history related to the game, tactics and strategy.
Things far more positivev and productive than all these threads about Dead game and all that.

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You nailed it. Ultimately it is 100% civs, empires, history - in a word, DLCs, nothing else - that’s gonna revive Age of Empires 4. Definitely not endless repetitive “OP this, OP that” or “AoE4 is dead” topics.

Topics abour history, empires as inspiration for new civs, new game mechanics, new strategic frameworks are the most important discussions by a long mile.

Bugs and fixes can’t save AoE4 (most are fixed already anyway), and bugs do not belong here in Discussion Forum, there’s a Bug Forum for those.

SC has gone sterile, its appeal is waning terminally. It’s a game for finger-click robots now.

We don’t want AoE to become pure automaton French x English e-sport forever.

I also think these Ottoman topics are way too boring already. Please don’t open one again. We don’t need new civs atm. The core gameplay still has to be fixed, at least on water. There is still a couple of landmarks that are completely useless.

And we already have gunpowder, infantry, and cavalry-based civs. Even one with religion-based gameplay. Ottomans has nothing special that we would need in this game. What we need is a polished and bug-free core, if this is achieved we should talk about expansions. (We are quite far away from this)

The game can be dead anytime as the interest for RTS games is quite low. We will see how stormgate will be received by the communities but I can say they won’t have that many players. It would be quite a huge surprise if they would be able to maintain a long development cycle for stormgate based on their f2p model.

Theres like 4 threads in this section of the forum talking about the Ottomans.

One with a Suggestion of a DLC.
One in a generic Turk civilization Discussion
One asking for Ottomans to be added.

And then this One, being just a Concept Idea.

If you haven’t noticed, I’ve made plenty of Civilization Concepts before making this one if you even bothered reading the first post.

Southeast Asia:
The Majapahit Empire
The Dai Viet Dynasties
The Burmese Empire
The Champa Kingdoms
The Thai Kingdoms
The Khmer Empire

East Asia:
The Korean Dynasty
The Japanese Shogunate

Europe:
The Norse Vikings
The Scottish Kingdoms

The Ottoman being the 11th Civilization Concept I made.

This Topic, and the Topics of Civilization concepts are made for 2 reasons:
Thowing the Idea of this Civilization out there to the community.
but also giving them a brief history lesson of that Civilization related to the Game of Age of Empires.

Not just me, but I think many people who play Age of Empires are above average interested in History.
and Age of Empires 4 specifically wants to celebrate this history and put a focus on History.
I mean, just look on their campaigns, and events they throw out in honor of said history.

And if you haven’t noticed.

All civ’s is Gunpowder, Infantry, Cavalry and Religion based in this game. Even Naval, if you have a look at the full pictures.
Every civ currently is able to play all things, and has their unique strength on their things.

Gunpowder?
Well English and French has unique gunpowder units (rebalderquin).
English gunpowder units fire 25% faster.
French has mobile Cannons and Culverins.
Mongols have extra mobility on their gunpowder units, and with the Khan able to fire faster or granted more armor. And with the Kurultai, 25% more damage.
Chinese, having unique gunpowder tech, dynasty buff and NoB.
Abbasid having 15% more health on theris.
Rus having Strelskies.
Dheli having Forced march for superior mobility, and ability to build fortifications in form of walls.

So in a sense. All 8 civs are “Gunpowder” civ in their retrospect.

So you point that Ottomans won’t give anything special to the game, well is True to a sense, but that same argument can be given to any of the current civs in this game!

French don’t give anything special. English don’t give anything special, etc.
We might as well cut one of these Civ’s off.
Lets say, we just get rid of Dheli while were at it? Due to them being plagued with bugs.

For the sake of balance, and Polish, and for the fact, Dheli doesn’t give anything special to the game.

Nah, that would be outright silly.

While indeed this game need further Polish and Bug fixing.
This is a neverending job. It can Polish and Bug fix into eternity, as long as new patches are coming out, even without any new content. A change to the code is always a risk of a bug to the code.

But that being said. It’s not like this game is Unplayable. It’s still playable enough at the Competative level.
It’s not so horrible bug ridden than you can’t hold tournaments in this game!

Unlike many other Games now days have been.

When you look at it in its whole.
This game has been had surprisingly low game-breaking bugs compared to most games being released lately.

Ever heard of the massive criticism Cyberpunk2077 had at release? Fallout76 memes? Warthammer Total war? WC3 Remastered? Amazon’s New World?

Just to mention a few games far more hyped up than this one with a much vaster budget.
And 2 of these games I mentioned Fried peoples graphic cards rendering them useless! OUCH!
because if a tiny simple error of not having a frame-rate limited by default!

People saying this game will be dead anytime. Now that’s a thing I’ve commonly seen over and over again.
Yet it haven’t died yet?
They said the same thing about AoE3. Yet it still has a small but thriving community?

AoE franchise is one of those game franchise I actually don’t think will ever die. As long as AoE2 exist and has the popularity it has.
That in itself will keep any other AoE games alive just by proximity.

And I’m exited for Stormgate.
Not for the reason I want to play the game.
but so that most SC-fanboys can go over to that game and complain instead of trying to change AoE into just another “SC” game. but with medieval setting.

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Well, everyone would be happy if the aoe2 fanboys would go over to aoe2, and sc players back to sc, but then the game had no more players :smiley:

I am sorry that I didn’t check your other topics, I don’t have any problems with them, the only ones I am bored with are the ottoman ones. You will see 50+ search results for ottoman-related discussions as they are almost always mentioned in each thread.

Nevertheless, I still think that this game needs no new civs at the moment.

and thats fine.
And most likely we are not going to see any new civ until next year, if lucky, before xmas. but highly doubt that.

The reason why we see them being mentioned so many times in the search results, is due to them being in all the other AoE franchise titles.
And why the “Turks” are mentioned quite a lot in discussions here is that the Turkic tribes had a huge impact on history.
One is quick to forget that Turkic is a very broad term that encompasses many empires and civilizations of the era.
Technically even the Mongols and Huns are linked to this. They were fought in the middle between 2 great empires of the West and the East. so naturally they are often mentioned in all direction of history.

Regardless the probability of new civs being added to the game is very high. It doesn’t make any sense even from a business perspective to not do so.

It part of the identity of Age of Empires, it’s technically in the name.

It’s the same thing for StarCraft. StarCraft has been running the Terran-Zerg-Protos Trio since the beginning.
no expansion or anything has added new Faction to this triangle.
And any new SC titles are expected to keep this holy trinity.
One would rather be shocked if a new faction were to appear.
Mainly due to the fact, the Lore is so ingrained into the drama between these 3, that a 4th faction out of nowhere would just be very wrong. Or needs to have one hell of a worldbuilding and story telling, that should have been covered by the former games.

The reason why there is so many Ottoman threads is because, Turks themselves are a very popular faction to play. Perhaps due to high amount of Turkish players, but even outside Turkey, Ottoman is a unique alternative to the Western Nations of the era.

I mentioned it in a earlier post as well that the Ottoman/Turks aren’t among my top favourite Civilizations.
However, the thing I really love about them is them being the Catalyst of the Stereotypical Pirates of the age.
With the whole story around Captain Red Beard and his impact and legacy of the great maritime nations.
The barbarous Pirates or Arab-style pirates and their style is always something I’ve loved ever since I watched Sinbad TV show on TV as a kid.

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This sentence is a candidate to one of the most bizarre thinly-veiled-hate remarks on AoE forum. Do we really need this here? I didn’t use to be an Ottomans civ supporter, but now I’ll become one.

If “there are topic about all civs, but I’m only bored by this civ” (sic), why in Gods name are you posting in this guy’s Topic?

We already have “Infantry”? “Cavalry”? “Religion-based”? What is this guy talking about LOL :joy: :rofl:

Apparently, we have one person on the forum that didn’t notice.

2 Likes

Well, what I meant by that is:
Infantry-based: HRE, Mb we can say English too.
Cavalry: French, Rus
Religion: Delhi
Gunpowder: China
Abbasid and Mongols are a good mix of cavalry and infantry, they are quite unique.

While all of the civ has all types of units the focus is different in each. The current rus meta not use early-knight but they are still here, and you can see how they designed that civ. + horse archers.

I think with this 8 civ all types of gameplay styles are covered. What we would require are changes to a few landmarks to give more decision-making chances to the players because currently, a few of them are not that useful.

Tbh, if we are to look on each civ Trademark. its rather simple. it stands in their civ description.

English: Defensive, Longbows, Farming.
French: Trade, Cavalry, Keeps.
HRE: Infantry, Religion, Defensive.
China: Dynasties, Gunpowder, Taxes.
Mongols: Aggression, Cavalry, Nomadic.
Rus: Expansion, Cavalry, Hunting.
Dheli: Elephant, Research, Religion.
Abbasid: Technology, Camels, City planning.

This is at least the 3 Key-words the Devs of AOE has in mind when thinking of these Civs.

My personal take, just based on how they are actually played by people is:

English: Long Range and Siege (in form of Artillery and extra-armored units)
French: Knights and Aggression
HRE: Religion and Infantry.
China: Workforce and Advanced-Weapons.
Mongols: Mobility and Aggression.
Rus: Hunting and Expansion. (map control in form of Towers, Scouts and strong Cavalry)
Dheli: Elephants and Defensive.
Abbasids: Technology and Economy.

2 Likes

Personally, I believe any civilization design should have 3 or 4 keywords to describe it, and a measure of how strong a civ design is, is how specific, unique and game-changing those keywords are.

Example, keywords such as “infantry”, “archers”, “defensive” is the ultimate hallmark of a weak, boring civ design. “City planning”, “Dynasties”, “Nomadic” are far more interesting and game-changing.

I think @Kameho3743 's concept for the Ottoman Empire is amazing, mostly because of the highly flexible and revolutionary “Captive system” and treats like Sahi Topu. I’d like to ask @Kameho3743 what would your 3 keywords be for the Khmer, the Thai, the Burmese and the Ottoman Empire?
.

On this aspect, the concept below pops on top when searching the forum, it’s a major classic of the AoE forum and I dig the hybrid nomad-settled idea, the eco-mil asymmetry, and the wolf conversion idea, but a bit over the top in my opinion (10 different key features in a single civ is really too many):
.

(copied from another thread)

Part 1: Top 10 Reasons why It’s the Most Unique Civ

Here’s the Top 10 Reasons why the Turks / Ottoman Empire concept is the most unique, gameplay-changing civ concept on the Age of Empires Forum (further details on the full Civ Concept below):

1. it’s the ONLY Hybrid (nomad+settled) civ in the history of the franchise

2. the ONLY asymmetric civ in terms of fundamental Economy-Military balance in Age of Empires EVER

3. it has the UNPRECEDENTED trade interference concept / Monopoly

4. when it SLAYS a Trader, it takes ALL the gold bytch was carrying

5. it has the BEASTLY, BRUTAL Great Bombard in its REAL historical size

6. it boosts the army with a badass army BAND, not a priest; a song for each situation

7. it can tame WOLVES based on the cool, unique, SAVAGE legend of origin of the Turks

8. versatile, evolving “Spartan” COMBO unit Yeniçeri (Janissary) in ages 2-4; heavy knight Spahi with massive, BRUTAL skull-crushing mace as weapon

9. it has a NEVER-SEEN-before Devshirme army recruitment method, and Ghazi veterancy system

10. the Ottoman Empire created 97% of Mega Bombards on Earth, invented the matchlock MUSKET that changed history, and was the WORLD’s most powerful empire at the end of AoE4 time

Ottoman Spahi Armor 1479

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I think i did put it under the flag.

But i see i need to redo most of them anyway.
But they are the first Keywords i put up when thinking up a concept.

But for the here is at least a updated list:

Khmer: Economy, City planning, Religion(Monestary)

Thai: Trade, Religion(Units), Defensive

Burma: Cavalry, Religion(Relic), Aggression

Ottoman: Gunpowder, Artillery, Aggression

As I explained on my last message, I believe specific, new-concept keywords are much better than generic keywords.
Your 3 Southeast Asian civs all have the keyword “Religion”. “Cavalry”, “Defensive”, “Aggression” are pretty bland, unstimulating right?
I hope you will further enhance these civ concepts and keywords, to better formulate new DLC options for the future DLC poll.

Seen from my perspective, your Ottoman Empire civ concept keywords are

Captive system, Viziers, Pirates, Giant Bombard

.

In comparison, keywords for classic Ottoman Empire civ concept by @Vinifrss on forum seems to be

Hybrid (Nomad-to-Settled), Asymmetric Eco-Mil, Wolves, Devshirme, Army Band

1 Like