so is this supremacy or treaty??
Treaty of causeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
He has the potential for a 15% discount, but all of these pictures are worthless unless you post recs. There are numerous things that can change just about everything, also please realize that your in a thread about buffing Malta. No one is saying their fine as is, people (if you read the replies and check the likes) are just more inclined to agree with my suggestions than yours.
If you post recs you might get some help.
Now you’re being ridiculous. You said Supremacy, then Treaty. Please post recs or stop wasting everyone’s time.
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Kind of like a feitorias for defensive building and for just wood?
Why did they change that? I know for a fact it did on a patch. Prob when they reverted it 30% total boost and not 25%. Still my bad
Just give up. Hes a pathological liar who on purpose refuses to give proofs as his recs then refuses to admit mistakes (like well it let me get the list). Dont bother engaging. Unlike a good faith person he refuses to admit mistakes or when hes wrong, which is more than not, and worst of all hes just a kid who abused the haude rush to 1200 and now thinks hes got some insight because he crackes top 50%. Dont invest much with loser like him hes not going to admit hes full of it. So why bother just add to the list.of insane statements he refuses to recant and apologize for and move on when he posts to mot derail further
Blockquote
Before anyone spends time responding to juan. Hes a bad faith arguement who posts half truths or lies constantly
Basically everyone else every time the have to read more of your dumb and untrue statements like.here
Forgor the jaegers so thats another lie
The man couldnt get past 990 without doing rhe haude rush says this (check ffp)
Translator note- wheels is villager in juanese
Not since RE
add that to the list of lies. not how sentinels work
He called this supremacy before, funny
Not true cept very specific all ins
Not how math works but ok
less lie more lack of game knowledge.
Man really doesnt understand how 39 range/60range works but then he couldnt get malta.past.1k so…
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Actually, @coffeeco01 @Kingfisher1787 how much would allowing wignacourt to work as eco theory base (aka not effected by buildings just the 10%) help? In theory thats a 10-12% eco boost early game to end? Doesnt make things too crazy i think?
(Cba to calculate the sw so im guessing it would cap at extra 13% eco boost or so?)
That could likely work.
It would be +10% villager gather on all resources and +20% villager gather rate on Natural Resources near a defensive building. am I understanding correctly? At that point it’s exclusively a late game consideration.
I’d consider whether we drop the +5% on mills that’s currently missing from Sicilian Supply in the original post (should be +15% food or +12/12% but I made a couple small errors in the OP). That would be a net of +20% coin, +10% wood, and -5% food taken all together as a net gain/loss which doesn’t seem unreasonable (obviously the wood goes away at some point but -5% food on mills for +20% coin on estates could easily be a civ’s free trade-off church tech).
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The most liked post here has 3 likes))) I could call my colleagues from work and win this duel
Out of 300 people who watched it, only 3 (1%) agree with you.
We only discuss in 4th. It’s like we are just drinking in a bar. So you haven’t convinced me. I think my proposals are much better than yours. At least they don’t change the design of the nation to use falconets or produce more wood at the expense of food, which no one ever uses for Malta.
The only thing you really suggested that was reasonable was culverins shipment at age 3 and possibly 18 range for the musketeers (even though I don’t like it, it’s not as bad as everything else you wrote here).
Yes I can.
Cassador
Well, I took this upgrade as a base. I already tested it when I played Supreme and I liked the result. Instead of factories you should build outposts and castles (lombards for Italy). The original upgrade does not work on TC but works on ships. Maybe we just need to copy it with a rework on wood and that’s it.
MalteseRusItaly.age3Yrec (14.4 MB)
I accidentally got a game where all the problems I talk about here on the forum are present.
- Russians didn’t have enough blockhouses
- Commanderies are too expensive
- Sentinels have nowhere to use
- Italy and Malta have very weak eco
And of course the typical things for a 3v3 ranked battle:
- no walls
- no team cards
- no TP upgrade
I’ll say this. From the 2 pop musketeer, I want it to deal bonus damage to cavalry from a range, not melee. Then you can leave it without changes. A great replacement for dragoons.
Started watching your recording. How good would you say you played? Was this typical?
I still haven’t learned how to build 3rd TC)
- since this unit has an outlaw design, meaning it’s cheap but costs more population, I think we need to reduce the cost increase at age 4 from 40% to 30%.
So we give it wall guns initially, change the bonus against cavalry from melee to range, and lower the final cost by 10%. Vanilla style.
This is where I really screwed up.
SentinelChallenge.age3Yrec (10.9 MB)
Juan man who taught you that opening?
Ima not even be a dick but damn dude its… rough. No wonder you struggling
-both games you dont make a villager before 20s
-both games you 10/10 but no vill shipment so then you pop lock until age2 (4min) and then send wignacourt. Which is worth 3 vills at that point. Youre better off 12/10 or just make a house and std age with 15 or 16. Villagers gather more and more villagers = better value of wignacourt.
-the 3 church opening works better to send 2 church after making 1x church 1x house to get enough xp to send 3 vills asap before clicking age2. Youll age up 25s slower at most but with 50% more eco.
-your tc idle time is too much. Both games had close to 2 minutes of idling sub 6min. Thats 4 to 5 vills lost essentially.
-you need crates, yes even in teams, 700w 700c are often used.
-why send GT and not bother making more wagons? Each commandary is worth 2tc when making them. Thats how to grow eco quickly
-2tc but idle all the time in age3
You want a better maltese eco? Learn a better opener. If you were more optimal in opening and card youd have 8*1.3 more vills minimum.
Kudos for finally posting your vids, but there are ways to improve your eco. You call malta eco weak but you’re not using the civ optimally. You need to learn a better opening and consistent macro (less idle, better age ups, better use of cards). If you just want to advocate for your elo it’s fine, but know that for us (and those above us) the issues are more subtle. You could raise your elo by 200pts with judt better builds and efficency. But if you don’t play optimally you cant blame the civ calling it weak because of eco or you cant use units effectively because you failed to set up your economy to support them
P.S.- seriously the idling. We all idle a pinch here and there but you need to drill in your head till 99 vills every tc should be making vills unless.under seige or aging
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Thanks for the advice, I’m trying all possible options. Do 3 churches really give more experience than one TP?
I would also like to note that I don’t have such problems with the economy for Russians and Spain.
I didn’t like the 3 vils start because I need to take 4-5 cards before fortress. And so it turns out to be 5-6.
Edit: Regarding the second game, I couldn’t stand settlers because I didn’t have wood for houses, because the war took away wood, and sentinels ate up the entire limit.
For some reason It loses in treaty. I am not very impressed with the Russians’ eco either. But for Spain I simply did not have time to spend everything when I reached the 200 limit.
My conclusions are made precisely on the comparison. When I tried to play Spain after Malta, it seemed to me that I had turned on cheats.
Look:
Moreover, I played through the imperial crossbowmen)))
I watched the first rec until it went out of sync (over 20 mins in). @platypus_slayer1 gave you some excellent pointers. What’s also worth adding is with players making mistakes like I saw in the rec (deck issues and some of the things already pointed out) things that shouldn’t work will. Improper micro throws things off and so do suboptimal build orders and strategies. At higher levels things work differently. The data you’re using as input when coming up with balance suggestions is flawed. That’s really not your fault.
Statements like this about Spain’s Rods show you don’t understand higher level play.
Speed is what makes them very strong at higher levels (speed allows for better micro and snaring. Positioning can be massive in fights. Rods can flank much better than most heavy infantry). They also pair extremely well with Lancers and skirms.
There are a lot of people at your level, which makes finding people of your skill level far easier. That’s important because it means you’re unlikely to get matched with substantially better opponents who could directly show you how they play (potentially isolating you from players who could challenge your perspective). It’s not your fault btw, it’s just how the algorithm works
As your elo gets higher there are less people to match with. I got matched with JulianK in November (I was probably the closest elo the game could find him lol. I didn’t think I had a shot at wining that). Somehow I overcame a ~600-700 elo gap and won. He’s a pro player, I beat him, but I wouldn’t seriously call myself a pro player because it would be laughable. That’s why we gave you a hard time about this:
JulianK is like 2200 elo. I’d put the bottom of the pro range around 1900-2000 elo in 1v1 ranked. That’s a long way above either my us.
Everyone at your level is playing sub-optimally so it’s not easy to see how powerful things are in comparison to each other. It’s like comparing people’s heights on an uneven floor. At higher levels you can start to see clearer. People are playing more perfectly so imbalances between civs become glaring.
Overall I think less is needed than you think, and many of the bigger changes you suggested would be too much at higher levels (even at mine they’d be problematic, and it would only get worse as you move up). All things considered, even the larger imbalances today are relatively small from a historical perspective for the game. As you approach the “competitive level” or “pro level”, tiny things like -50f from starting crates can be unbelievably huge (More is needed here, but I’m illustrating a point).
I’m not sure I want to spend the time on treaty recs, but some of the villager micro issues @platypus_slayer1 pointed out add up over time. If you want to post pictures of your treaty decks I think we’d be happy to look them over (we might spot something useful). If you want more long arguments, I think you can count me out. I don’t intend to spend as much time arguing on here and probably just won’t reply back.
Edit: I genuinely hope some of what I said will be helpful to you. Also, if you want Supremacy deck help let us know. The right deck can be a huge deal especially vs people with poor ones.
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Oh, that’s strange, I didn’t have such an error. But I understand that you watched it at x3 speed.
Well, why not, I played on the same team with a guy who was the first to reach industrial age with a rush deck on Malta, that is, earlier than the guys with crates.
I didn’t see anything fantastic in the game of that guy whose video you sent me.
agree with your statement. I never said I was a great supremacy player. However, I still think your vision of the game is so suboptimal. The fact that you want to use falconets instead of fixed cannons, just like I want to use cassadors instead of arbalesters, shows that malta is not optimized. To get good results on it you MUST simulate classic European civilizations. You’re clearly looking in the wrong direction. It is necessary that Malta does not try to simulate classical European civilization.
For example, your offer to give wood tricle instead of food tells me that you want to use the factory to supply some other resource. What’s the problem? Just take another card for wood production. Malta has 5 of them, choose any. Isn’t that enough for you?)
Oh yeah… they don’t fit on the deck. That’s why the whole Malta is buggy crap.
It’s a pity that no one commented on this. I do everything so wrong that I have a 67% win rate in Spain. But for some reason not Malta and not Haud. And not even Russia. How can this be? Spain is not the USA/Ottoman. What is the problem? This is the same noob (me) but for some reason the difference is obvious.
If I sit down for Spain, with the same skills that I have now, I will raise my elo by another 100. I guess I understand what Malta lacks compared to Spain or Russia.
You both @platypus_slayer1 @Kingfisher1787 told me about “adaptation”. Not taking into account that India, Ottoman, USA, Spain, Dutch, Germany, France, Japan, Portugal, Russia, British, China, Lakota, Swed, Mexican, Aztec do not require any “adaptation”.
Yes, this is my opinion and you may not agree with it.
I will close this topic FOREVER if I hear a comment from some professional that these guys are f*****g awesome, they are better than any doppelsonder, landsknecht, halberdier, samurai, jaguar knights, poruchik, maybe even better than an insurgent and hospitaller.
yeah its like worth 2.25 TP. The way I described should net your 3 vill right around aging to 2 so you get 3 more vills during age up which is like 300+ more resources gathered plus bigger payoff from Wignacourt. And this opening can be used on no tradeline maps to help malta keep tempo. It also helps you get German Tounge and 1 house so you dont idle your town center and can start making wagons with the 400 age up wood. Both games you posted no one attacked pre 7 minutes so you should be focused on maxing eco in the begining.
Supremacy isnt treaty, I wont speak to Malta issue in treaty but in Supremacy, where decks are more focused on unit shipments and crates, Malta eco with just 2-3 cards (GT, wigna, S. Supply) is better than most civs. I’d wager 1v1/2v2 this is fine, by 3v3/4v4 malta lack of 2nd factory and 2 pop woes begins to be a bigger issue as games go longer. Still, Malta early game defence (keep in mind higher elo team games are insanley aggro, with most matches being rushes into contain/breakouts) helps them here.
Yeah not suprsing. Spain is much easier to play, and arguably better in most scenarios. Russia is also very straightforward and does well at lower elos when people dont do as well under pressure and games go longer. Spain is considered s tier, as good or better as otto/usa/etc in 1v1s btw. Very simple yet very strong flexible civ. Malta, like most DE civs, is more complicated and lot of its power comes from the player being very tight with managing openings and then having good game sense. Italy, inca, african civs all are more complicated for not a huge power differential but play extremely unique to the base eight civs imho. But im going off topic now.
careful this isnt as hard as you think but ok ill ask.
Also to not just focus on negative, you do use Fixed guns well to take map. I didnt see any canceled shots or w/e just units moving out of range before it rargetlocks. its a slow animation. But you did use them well to advance on the map and sell/remove as needed. But the pop of them and sentinels caused issues as you said, so maybe with new cleaner openings (like do you know market start?) might help a good deal here for your ecomomy to keep up
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If you consistently play Supremacy games suboptimally with super low-tempo upgrade-focused decks, that will work better on some civs than others. You’ll be able to get away with it because a lot of low elo games are slow anyway (ie they often lack the speed required to punish you).
It’s also possible you are using some lower value upgrades with some civs and not with others. Refrigeration and Royal Mint make a lot of my 3v3 decks, but cards like Blockhouse Hitpoints or or Gun Powder Mills won’t.
I used to play with a lot more eco cards, more recently I’ve shifted more towards tempo and it’s helped a lot.
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@platypus_slayer1 @Kingfisher1787 Thank you all, I heard and tried yours. And this is what I understood.
I understand what you both are talking about.
I tested the additional 2.0 tree tricle. But without -2.5 food tricle. It’s good. But the training rate of vills from 3 TC is too low in my opinion, Compared to others.
And you need to understand me. I can’t fight with 56 soldiers (2 fixed guns, 2 culverins and about 52 sentinels). It’s not enough. (88 vills pop) And I don’t think it’s just a treaty and late game issue. Let’s learn from the best. Mexico, Dutch and France have a lower worker limit for a reason. They use 3 pop and 2 pop units. But this does not stop them from going into a horde of 1 pop units. I don’t see any problem with reducing the maximum number of vills.
I had a fight of 35 guard sentinels without aura against 20 veteran regulars. And the sentinels won with 18 casualties. I get what you mean about increasing the range. Not a bad idea, but 18 is too much. With their increased movement speed. I would just like the wall guns to work from the start and give a range increase of 3 instead of 1. And instead of a wall gun card, you can add a 2.5 wood card that allows you to build more fences.
That’s why I say there is no need to buff falconets.
It’s funny, when I was reviewing my replays I thought about this too. But in fact, this problem happens to me very often.
It was visible in this video.
It was also visible in this fight.