[Poll] How often do you use Alt-f4 in ranked? Please don't click unless you will vote

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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Hi. I had a similar poll, but due to the comments there, it is clear I needed more possible answers, so here is the new version, and I didn’t want to reset the vote there. Please vote. Polls are totally anonymous. If you don’t play a gamemode, then either vote for what you would do, or just put never.

Clarification about approximate numbers for each option, if that is how you want to base it: Almost Always(8 or more out of 10 game use Alt-f4), Often(6 or 7 games use Alt-f4), Sometimes(4 or 5 games use Alt-f4), Rarely(between 1 and 3 games use Alt-f4), or Never(Literally never use Alt-f4, maybe 1 game in every 50 or something)

How often do you use Alt-f4 in ranked 1v1s?
  • Almost Always. I only like playing one or two maps, and I will always dodge anything else.
  • Often. I definitely prefer playing only a few maps, but I will occasionally accept something else.
  • Sometimes. I don’t mind most maps, but some maps, especially if I have had them several times recently, need to be skipped.
  • Rarely. I will accept whatever map I get, even if I don’t like it, but if I have played certain maps far too much recently, especially if I have lost them, I might use Alt-f4.
  • Never. Although I don’t always like the map I get, I will accept whatever happens, even if I am more likely to resign early on maps I don’t like.

0 voters

How often do you use Alt-f4 in team games?
  • Almost always. Either if I get a map I hate playing, or if my teammates are really different in skill from me, or if I am matched up against an unfair team.
  • Often. I will skip if the map is something I can’t stand, especially if I have already played it recently, or if my team is very different in skill from me.
  • Sometimes. I don’t mind playing other maps occasionally, but too much, especially if the team is very different from me, deserves the odd Alt-f4.
  • Rarely. I just want to play the game, and don’t like to use Alt-f4, but if the map is really bad and I’ve played it too much, or if the team is really unfair, I might Alt-f4.
  • Never. Even if I hate some maps, or don’t enjoy playing with some teams, I will always try and play the game, even if I am more likely to resign in certain situations.

0 voters

Final Question: Why do you normally use Alt-f4?
  • I don’t use it at all.
  • To avoid maps.
  • To avoid teams.
  • To avoid opponents.
  • Multiple of the above.
  • Something else.

0 voters

If you see this, thanks for voting, or please vote if you didn’t, I want this to be as accurate as possible.

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Assuming the ratio of votes stays similar, just goes to show that the majority doesn’t alt-f4 and a smaller minority is ruining multiplayer for everyone else. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: using alt-f4 is per definition a selfish act, considering any reasoning you could put forward, cannot be for the benefit for anyone but yourself. You’re not alt-f4ing to improve the experience of other players.

So please dont try to ‘justify’ alt-f4ing down here. We’ve seen all the defences already and yes, the people that don’t alt-f4 are aware of the problems with matchmaking and map bans. Alt-f4 is not a solution, it’s just making an existing problem worse.

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I chose this answer for 1v1, but it is a bit loaded; I am not more likely to resign early on maps I don’t like.

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There is not necessarily a correlation between the amount of maps someone likes and the frequency in which they dodge, many just want control over when they play certain maps.

If I dodge BF this does not mean that I hate it, however there is a time and a place for such maps.

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I’ve literally seen some people proud of altf4ing, or people trying to justify it and say it’s not selfish. It’s an indefensible position.

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That’s why I said “even if”, because not everyone will do this, but some people will be more likely to resign earlier, and I don’t want to overcomplicate it.

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That’s why I merely called it ‘loaded’, not ‘wrong’.

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38% is a small minority? Wtf?

And your post is the exact definition of manipulating numbers.

The poll shows that 38% people use Alt-f4, 2/3 of those do it because of maps, and the only meaningful thing you conclude from this is that the majority does not Alt-f4?

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Numbers are now 28% and 30% respectively. So yes, a minority. It’s a good thing alt-f4ers aren’t a majority because if everyone alt-f4s all the time, nobody could play ranked anymore

Beyond that I didnt conclude anything. I’ve already shown alt-f4ing to be selfish in the main thread about it, and I dont want to repeat myself here.

And what do you mean, “manipulating numbers”? Am I changing the outcomes of the poll? Am I changing the numbers to fit my point of view? No. You may not like my interpretation of the numbers, but don’t go around baselessly accusing people of fudging the numbers.

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I think it’s likely that people who are here voting on a forum, especially about this topic, are actually much ‘more’ likely to Alt F4 than the standard player base.

No data to back that up, but I know of lot of people who are ‘This map only!’ have been playing longer and maybe come from voobly etc. So they’re more likely to be active on forums and such, having needed to do things like that to keep the game alive (thanks btw).

Newer players I imagine will have just accepted how the ranked ladder is and not have any issue with not getting to play the one map they love.

Just a thought.

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I have no idea what you have shown, but based on your 2 posts, it looks like you claim a lot and you don’t show much. If really in the past you have shown evidence that Alt-f4’ers are selfish, then if anything this poll should make you reconsider your position - any sane person would not claim that 30% of people are selfish.

The current system is retarded enough that Alt-F4 should be considered a legitimate mechanic of it, certain people want to play according to rules that are not available without Alt-F4, it’s not a selfish move, it’s just a stupid mechanic of a stupid system.

Yes.

Labelling 32% people as “a minority” is beyond reason.

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People who only like playing on a small set of maps shouldn’t be playing ranked tbh, just make a lobby with your friends or something

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Sure buddy; 90% of the pro gameplays you’ll find on the Internet are played on Arabia, it has always been the iconic map and for which all balance decisions were made, we’ve had 50,000$ Arabia-only tournament, but certainly those who want to play only this map are not competitive because you say so. I’ve seen Hera play only on Arabia lately so, I’ll make sure to tell him ranked is not the right place for that; probably he should “make a lobby and play with friends”.

Needless to say the ranked rating would be much more representative if it included more Black Forest or Nomad gameplay. Not to mention the classic Islands, remember these games from HC where Portuguese were picked 100% of the games? I’m so glad the balance has been fixed now. Wait I realize it has not, Portuguese are still picked all the time. But still we have Megarandom to counteract that, now it’s a dice roll which decides the winner, take that, civ abusers.

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The problem with the polls here is the lack of participation, i guess those who vote for nomad and megarandom on everysingle map rotation are the same who votes that they never do alt f4 :confused:

I am going to tell memb to cancel KOTD cause there are some guys around who think that playing one map doesn’t deserve to be ranked meaning tournaments are a waste of money, i am wondering why on earth we have never had a single big tournament based on nomad, megarandom, islands, maybe the pros and sponsors are clueless about the true essence of the game 11

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Pardon me, when I said “shown” I really meant to say ‘made a case for’. I did not mean to suggest I have ‘proven’ anything because how would one go about proving selfishness.

As for the case I have made many times, please see these posts:

Enjoy the read. As you can see, it’s not the first time I’ve had this argument with someone.

Here’s the dictionary definition:
Minority: the smaller number or part, especially a number that is less than half the whole number.

If you have an issue with that, take it up with the people who wrote the dictionary. Anything below 50% is a minority, but the closer to 50% the more significant that minority becomes. The wishes and experience of 32% of a player base cannot be more important than that of the majority. I’m simply stating the numbers as they are, and calling the smaller one of the two a minority. This is not manipulating numbers.

Besides, for 1v1 the number of alt-f4ers is currently (at the time of me writing this) 26%. It is 29% for team games. But really, if you leave out the rarely/sometimes voters, to capture the people who really consistently the practice of alt-f4 (almost always/often people), those numbers decline to 14% and 16% respectively. Seems like the people that constantly alt-f4 are far outnumbered by the people who don’t do so, or rarely so. This is not fudging numbers, this is interpreting the data to determine how much support among the player base alt-f4ing has.

Clearly not enough to suggest we should immediately ignore the wishes of the majority to bow to those of the small minority that alt-f4s

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Thanks, I know the definition. I also know how to read words in the context in which they are written, and so do you, so I didn’t think you would resort to something as ridiculous as quoting the dictionary for a discussion where context matters, but here we go.

You did not write that people who Alt-F4 are a minority. You wrote that “a small minority of people are ruining it for the majority”:

Anyone who reads that sentence will deduce that you imply a number much less than 36%.

Let’s take a different, more speaking example. Imagine you meet someone who begins an argument with: “Most people are women and a smaller minority are men, so…”.
Would you say that person is right by definition, or would you say, that person is likely to be retarded?

Yes they can, you weight by importance of the issue for each party not only by blindly looking at the number of people. What kind of logic is that? Should employed people stop paying taxes for the unemployed because they are ruining the income of the majority? For these 36% people Alt-F4 is the only way to play the game (they have to AFK a full game otherwise), for the 64% it is an annoyance that makes them wait 5 more minutes in the queue.

Another attempt to twist the numbers:

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35% is not what a reasonable person would label a small minority.

Why are you splitting 1v1 and teamgames in your post to artificially make the numbers decrease ? Why considering the frequency even though every choice in the poll makes it clear that the Alt-f4 is intentional and “deserved” ? What was written in your original post, was it “the minority that alt-f4’s regularly across both 1v1 and teamgames” , or “the minority of people who alt-f4”?

I rarely Alt-f4, because in 1v1 the map pool is fine for me, and in 4v4 I usually play with premades so I have enough bans that stupid maps happen rarely. Yet I think Alt-F4 is very good for the game and it would be a major deterrent to play for me if it was removed. Do I need to correct my poll replies just so you can’t twist the numbers?

The overwhelmingly large majority of the playerbase does not play ranked; they play campaigns, and if you asked them in a poll what the dev team should focus on, they’d probably be fine deleting the multiplayer entirely if it could bring more campaigns.

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Obviously. It’s called being sardonic.
I didn’t think we were going to be throwing baseless accusations at one another, but you already went ahead and did that too.

Would they? The sentence really just suggests that I believe 36% to be a ‘small minority’. That is my opinion and you can agree or disagree with that judgment if you wish.

I would say that ‘smaller minority’ is tautology. A minority is per definition smaller than the majority. But if the population consisted of 75% women and 25% men, I would call the latter group a ‘small’ (not smaller) minority.

It’s called democracy. The other is called the tyranny of the minority (oligarchy, aristocracy, dictatorship, whatever form it takes). All it means is that the wishes of the minority cannot simply override those of the majority, not that these wishes should be completely ignored.

Your example makes little sense. How are unemployed people ruining the income of the majority? And you are aware that the number of employed has been greater than the number of unemployed in the last 70 years in the US, on average? Nor are unemployed people actively stopping employed people from being employed, like alt-f4ers are stopping the rest from playing. So it’s not a very good example.

Interpretation is not twisting numbers. Some data points may be more important to the matter at hand than others, so me valuing higher the percentage of people who alt-f4 always/often over those who do it incidentally is not twisting numbers. I am still clearly showing my reasoning and not hiding any data, so if someone disagrees with the method or the judgment they can point that out. I am not saying that the 14% and 16% numbers are the percentage of ‘actual alt-f4ers’, because that would be twisting the numbers.

Why are you cherry-picking the data from the third question only and ignoring that of the first two? Don’t you think it is telling that the amount of responses to the third question does not match those of the first two? I mean, given there were 62 votes for the first question, you’d expect there to be at least as many votes for the third. Since that didn’t happen, the percentage of the third poll doesn’t really accurately represent every person who voted on this poll (including the first two). But I suppose that percentage suits your point better, so I can see why you would keep bringing that number up.

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The majority doesn’t play campaigns, even with the latest additions to the campaigns the completion rate among all players is still below 6% for the most played campaign(joan of arc)the rest are around 3%.

The majority does play vs bots and MP beating bots, campaigns can be removed entirely and you will be harming a quite small minority according to the global data, but that ain’t the point, i feel the urge to clarify that BIG misunderstanding cause there ain’t something backing up such argument about “the majority of the players plays campaigns” that single player content is overrated across forums and youtube.

55 voters whose majority actively read this forums and share the same opinion about adding moar civs, banning alt f4 on sight and actively give thanks to the devs for keeping the game alive and vote for mega random and nomad every 15 days isn’t like the best example, for example in the MP alt f4 big topic around 98% of all post think the problem is caused cause of the map dodging.

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While this is the raw reality of the massive dodging, but still people in forums seems to have tunnel vision.

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Wrong. MegaRandom and Nomad are, relative to the other maps that get voted in, played frequently when they are in the pool. Especially Nomad, which is one of the most played maps.

I think there is certainly a correlation.

nonsensical

I don’t get your obsession with tournaments, but you may find this interesting:

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small torunament compared to nowadays weekly showmatches, read btw lines next time.